In processor titrated water wash method

[K.H]

Am watching this with interest, as my processor will be built over the weekend.( Hopefully )
I used to water wash (mist) about 4 the the volume of bio.
This sounds perfect.

Nice to see you on here Mark

[mark230678]

Been lurking for a while.
Doing lots of reading again.
WIll be trying the Glyc Logs as well, now i have my woodburning stove in.....

[Tony]

Has anyone tried titrating the finished bio?

If the acid turns the soaps to FFAs, are you sure they are all washed out during the washes or have you got acid bio?

Just a thought.

Ion exchange resin does a very similar thing - turn soaps to FFAs.  The ATSM standard allows little soap but plenty of FFAs, so it's a good way to get a pass.  But the joint study on injection equipment showed the FFAs were bad for corrosion:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Effect_of_biodiesel_on_fuel_injection_systems

"Corrosion of fuel injection equipment, Filter plugging, Sediments on parts"

Does water wash it away?  Don't know...

[Carrington]

Just a thought
Been thinking about what if the FFA's remains in the bio and how could it be a problem, do we know if they are a problem to the veg runners.
I'm sure the oil used in straight running is better than is used in most bio production but there must be a % if FFA's.
also FAME (fatty acid methyl ester) is just fatty acid with  methanol bonded to it so still being a fatty acid.
Just a hazy morning while I awake in the chair.

[Tony]

It's a good point - forgot that WVO users must have them in their fuel.  Maybe they should water wash too

[julesandtash]

If you do everything you can to minimise the amount of soap in the biodiesel prior to adding the acid then the amount of FFAS in the finished fuel will be minimised.

Using dry oil, glycerol washing, sodium methylate and the two stage no titraion process all combine to minimise the soap (and, consequently, FFA) levels.

Certainly WVO users will have FFAs in their fuel. Even SVO user may end up with some since it is the repeated heating and cooling of oil that splits off the FFAs. Whilst the temperatures in a vehicle fuel system are not as high as a chip fryer, the oil is still be heated and cooled on a daily basis.

[Tony]

I thought that water had to be present for FFAs to split from the triglyceride with heat? (As provided by frozen chips added to a frier, for example).

[K.H]

Can you measure the ph of Bio? I thought you could only measure the ph of water based liquids.

I don know,I used two different indicators to get to 7.5 and the other half took a sample to the sci dept on Mon and there ph tester also said 7.5
What type of tester I don't know

[mark230678]

Keith just out of interest.
What was your process with the vinegar.
I am sure it's similar, but vinegar is easier for me to get hold of

[julesandtash]

I promise that I will help Keith write up a Wiki page for this soon. It wont be until the weekend though as I can guarantee not to have any spare time until then.
If you can list your process using Vinegar Keith that would be good as we can put both on the Wiki,
Mine should work for whatever strong acid (Sulphuric, Phosphoric, Hydrochloric etc) that anyone wants to use (Nitric would, of course, not be recommended for obvious reasons).

Yours should work for all sorts of weak acids, presumably citric, acetic, tartaric etc

[1958steveflying]

Good point, but a while back I wanted to find out about the 3/27 test.  There was a post on the VOD stating that a cloudy result indicated MGs and DGs.

I'd not seen that before and spent a great deal of time looking for the earliest mention of the 3/27 test.  I eventually found that Jan Warnqvist emailed it to Biofuel mailing list in Aug 2005., and there was no mention of MGs and DGs.  When this was pointed out to the poster, he withdrew the comments.

Probably easier for him to withdraw his comments than to try and validate them !

[Rotary-Motion]

i guess theres always fat in the oil i burn in the car cant get 100% out or maybe you could but for me not needed, dont chnage car fuel filters anymore and the cars done 1000's of miles,  i try get most gunge out in the shed filtering stages and water.

i only just done an engine oil/filter change after 2 years and 35,000 miles aswell, think most do it after 2 or 3 thoudsand miles to stop ring gumming, i guess this can be worse or better dependant on the engine type your useing?

the only fat buildup i have ever seen in a car fuel system is when it touches zinc or galvansied metal (fuel sender cover - pug 405) in fuel tank, also known of it in the gauze filter of the injection pump banjo (non HE heated system)

[william crosby]

this method sounds very interesting.where can i buy the acids needed to give this a got

thanks william

[mark230678]

Think Keith was using vinegar with success, so down to local supermarket.

[Carrington]

With this system you can use any acidic liquid you just need to do the titration with the same solution.

Paul