Author Topic: Advise required please....  (Read 9676 times)

Offline Julian

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 06:38:31 PM »
As for pipe work I use a 28mm suction and 22mm discharge, I recon 1" pipe work on a plant the size you propose will be woefully inadequate.

Eh?

1" is the ID, whilst 28mm is the OD.  (28 - 25.4) / 2 = 1.3mm which, surely, isnt too far the wall thickness?

Am i missing somthing?


28mm OD = 26mm ID, on an 80 ltr/min pump ... on a pump of considerably higher flow however, 25 mm, in my humble opinion will be too small.
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Offline Bio-boy

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 06:55:52 PM »
The pump has 1" BSP outlets so surely it is designed to flow 110LPM through that Dia pipework???

Offline Bio-boy

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 07:17:41 PM »

Offline THE-DOLPHIN

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 07:50:37 PM »
Hi bio bill I would say the hdpe would be a much better tank I work with pe and the ldpe is much softer

Offline Bio-boy

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 07:58:49 PM »
Hi bio bill I would say the hdpe would be a much better tank I work with pe and the ldpe is much softer

Thanks Dolphin.

Offline Rotary-Motion

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 10:06:21 PM »
im not sure here as I don't do bio, im a veg runner, but isn't 55c not hot enough for reaction/dewater/demeth ? that's all a hdpe tank can handle...

Offline nigelb

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 12:45:59 AM »
im not sure here as I don't do bio, im a veg runner, but isn't 55c not hot enough for reaction/dewater/demeth ? that's all a hdpe tank can handle...

...which is why I said what I said in post 4 of this thread.

Offline Julian

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 02:06:29 AM »
The pump has 1" BSP outlets so surely it is designed to flow 110LPM through that Dia pipework???

I think it rather depends on the pressure the pump is capable of, but for a tank of that size I'd be inclined to go with a high flow, lower pressure pump.

Out of interest, my 80 ltrs/min pump has 1½" connections and my Mono at only 12.5 ltrs/min has ¾" connections.
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Offline Bio-boy

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 08:01:47 AM »
My current processor, albeit is not plastic produces excellent biodiesel passing 10/90 tests with ease and the reaction takes place at 55deg. It also dries my biodiesel well and I demeth by water washing.

Offline therecklessengineer

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2015, 10:40:27 AM »
This might shed some light on pipework sizing:



In biodiesel manufacture, not only are we using a pump for moving fluid around, we're also using it for mixing. This is a bit of an odd requirement for a pump - they're normally designed to achieve a required pressure for pushing fluid down a pipe. In our application, pressure needs to be around ~0.2 bar to push it back to the reaction vessel - but we need a massive flow rate to get the mixing we want. This is well outside the bounds of the optimum operating point of most pumps (one of the reasons why eductors work so well in our application), but there are a few things we can do to help matters.

In the graph above, you can see how suction pressure varies with pump flow rate. To get the maximum flow, we need to minimise the pressure drop down the suction pipe. Generally speaking, this is more critical than the pressure drop in the discharge pipe because the pumps we're using have a design point with more pressure than we're putting on them.

You can also spin the pump faster than the design speed. Great if you've got a VFD driving your pump, more difficult if not. You really do need to ensure that you've got a good pressure on the inlet though - too fast and you run the risk of cavitating. I found my pump starts to cavitate at about 85Hz - it also pulls far too much current at this speed, but 60 works very well. It's hard to do a like for like comparison of flow rates without flow meters, but the pressure gauge on the discharge sits about 0.05 bar higher than at 50 Hz.

Offline Rotary-Motion

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2015, 12:00:54 PM »
im not sure here as I don't do bio, im a veg runner, but isn't 55c not hot enough for reaction/dewater/demeth ? that's all a hdpe tank can handle...

...which is why I said what I said in post 4 of this thread.

yes I see that just wanted to mention again, not just for here but others reading the importance of plastic tanks and the use of, there was a post somewhere about an emertion heater bending when hot and touching the side of tank and burning through...

Offline Julian

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2015, 12:50:44 PM »
im not sure here as I don't do bio, im a veg runner, but isn't 55c not hot enough for reaction/dewater/demeth ? that's all a hdpe tank can handle...

...which is why I said what I said in post 4 of this thread.

yes I see that just wanted to mention again, not just for here but others reading the importance of plastic tanks and the use of, there was a post somewhere about an emertion heater bending when hot and touching the side of tank and burning through...

I agree with RM, it can't be stated too many times.  This is one of the reasons ...




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Offline Julian

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2015, 12:56:29 PM »
This might shed some light on pipework sizing:



In biodiesel manufacture, not only are we using a pump for moving fluid around, we're also using it for mixing. This is a bit of an odd requirement for a pump - they're normally designed to achieve a required pressure for pushing fluid down a pipe. In our application, pressure needs to be around ~0.2 bar to push it back to the reaction vessel - but we need a massive flow rate to get the mixing we want. This is well outside the bounds of the optimum operating point of most pumps (one of the reasons why eductors work so well in our application), but there are a few things we can do to help matters.

In the graph above, you can see how suction pressure varies with pump flow rate. To get the maximum flow, we need to minimise the pressure drop down the suction pipe. Generally speaking, this is more critical than the pressure drop in the discharge pipe because the pumps we're using have a design point with more pressure than we're putting on them.

You can also spin the pump faster than the design speed. Great if you've got a VFD driving your pump, more difficult if not. You really do need to ensure that you've got a good pressure on the inlet though - too fast and you run the risk of cavitating. I found my pump starts to cavitate at about 85Hz - it also pulls far too much current at this speed, but 60 works very well. It's hard to do a like for like comparison of flow rates without flow meters, but the pressure gauge on the discharge sits about 0.05 bar higher than at 50 Hz.

Any chance of a wiki page on that, James?  It would sit well with the Pump buyers guide page. 

We've had people with large processors that didn't work efficiently only to find, after some detective work, they were using 15mm pipework.

I'm happy to redraw and alter any diagrams or graphs you may need.

Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline Bio-boy

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2015, 01:36:06 PM »
im not sure here as I don't do bio, im a veg runner, but isn't 55c not hot enough for reaction/dewater/demeth ? that's all a hdpe tank can handle...

...which is why I said what I said in post 4 of this thread.


I appreciate the risk and the processor will be supervised at all times.
yes I see that just wanted to mention again, not just for here but others reading the importance of plastic tanks and the use of, there was a post somewhere about an emertion heater bending when hot and touching the side of tank and burning through...

I agree with RM, it can't be stated too many times.  This is one of the reasons ...




Offline nigelb

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Re: Advise required please....
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2015, 05:51:51 PM »
That picture is horrible.

Always a metal tank for me.