ASM and cold weather

[Carrington]

Hi all just a quick one
As there's been lots of new users of ASM this year thought I'd better put out this warning that ASM will crystallise in this cold snap that where having. I used it for the past 5 winters and had trouble every year when it got realy cold.
The crystals will dissolve again when back up to temp but it does need a good shake to achieve strength uniformity.

If this has already been said just tell me to shut up.

Paul
Ps I will post this on VOD also

[photoman290]

 i seem to remember you mentioning it before, but not the bit about it  being ok when it warms up again. mine is wrapped up in a blanket of celotex inside a oil drum.

[nathanrobo]

Does this mean that care needs to be taken by the supplier at the point of dispensing?  Otherwise different users would have it at different strengths / weaknesses?

[nigelb]

Does this mean that care needs to be taken by the supplier at the point of dispensing?  Otherwise different users would have it at different strengths / weaknesses?

Yes it does Nathan.

When I took delivery of 1000lts in 5 drums a few months back the drums were decanted into 25's as soon as they arrived, at a temperature that was conducive to strength equality. Obviously I cant speak for the duty of care from other suppliers.

Nige

[nathanrobo]

Does this mean that care needs to be taken by the supplier at the point of dispensing?  Otherwise different users would have it at different strengths / weaknesses?

Yes it does Nathan.

When I took delivery of 1000lts in 5 drums a few months back the drums were decanted into 25's as soon as they arrived, at a temperature that was conducive to strength equality. Obviously I cant speak for the duty of care from other suppliers.

Nige

Guess it's a bit like meth... U gotta chose a supplier u trust & stick with them, particularly this time of the year.

Equally users should give their 25 ltrs drum a vigorous shake prior to use, or their calculations could be right out of the window.

[nigelb]

...and keep it somewhere out of the cold.

Nige

[K.H]

What temp does it freeze at then? an unopened 25 in the greenhouse is frozen solid. other one was fine

[1958steveflying]

What temp does it freeze at then? an unopened 25 in the greenhouse is frozen solid. other one was fine

The methanol should stop it freezing solid ! only the ASM component should freeze surely.

[K.H]

Thats what i thought ie screenwash, unopened from Niges first delivery, one fine one solid?

[1958steveflying]

Thats what i thought ie screenwash, unopened from Niges first delivery, one fine one solid?

I can only think the amount of ASM is different from each other, can this be tested ?

[Carrington]

Yes I think I can come up with a test that can be replicated at home. I need to try something before I post details

[nigelb]

Thats what i thought ie screenwash, unopened from Niges first delivery, one fine one solid?

I can only think the amount of ASM is different from each other, can this be tested ?

Can I refer you to post 4 of this thread.

The situation is rather odd. All of mine are fine

[1958steveflying]

What temp does it freeze at then? an unopened 25 in the greenhouse is frozen solid. other one was fine

I think I would be inclined to have a chat with the chemical supplier, they may be able to throw some light on it.  Why one would freeze solid and the other not at all is really odd but there must be an explanation.

How about if you take a 10ml sample of each and heat maybe with hot water would the methanol vaporise off leaving 3ml sodium ?

[Jamesrl]

How about if you take a 10ml sample of each and heat maybe with hot water would the methanol vaporise off leaving 3ml sodium ?

I'm not sure it works like that Steve, I believe it's 30% by weight not volume.

In the full formula for the conversion of NaOH pearl (dry weight) to ASM volume (in ml) there's a little calculation that take into account the molar weight of the two chemicals, Sodium and Methanol.

Therefore you wouldn't have 3ml of Sodium if you evaporated off the Methanol.

You'd need to work the full formula backwards to get the weight of Sodium in 10ml of ASM.

[1958steveflying]

How about if you take a 10ml sample of each and heat maybe with hot water would the methanol vaporise off leaving 3ml sodium ?

I'm not sure it works like that Steve, I believe it's 30% by weight not volume.

In the full formula for the conversion of NaOH pearl (dry weight) to ASM volume (in ml) there's a little calculation that take into account the molar weight of the two chemicals, Sodium and Methanol.

Therefore you wouldn't have 3ml of Sodium if you evaporated off the Methanol.

You'd need to work the full formula backwards to get the weight of Sodium in 10ml of ASM.

I hear what you are saying Jim, but for one drum to freeze solid would you assume it to have substantially less Methanol than the drum that stayed fully liquid ?