Soaps/Acetone

[nigelb]

Nige, personally I like to do cold washing, I think it helps remove HMPE's.

Also we may be able to reduce the amount of washes required,
unless we test these things we'll never know.

I do all my washes cold except for the last one which is done at drying temp for me..about 55C. I'm also down to 3-4 washes including the hot pump wash. That works out at 40lts to wash 150lts of bio. I l also think that cold or hot washes will see the end of HMPE's

I didn't mean to have a pop at the testing Mark. That was not my intention. I was, however, suggesting that adding acetone could be seen as unnecessary due to some rather efficient washing methods. It certainly is with the way I process.

[Head Womble]

I didn't mean to have a pop at the testing Mark. That was not my intention. I was, however, suggesting that adding acetone could be seen as unnecessary due to some rather efficient washing methods. It certainly is with the way I process.

Not taken as a pop mate.

A balanced viewpoint is always welcome.

Would you mind posting your washing method (as you know I'm a recent convet and have not read to much about water washing in the past).

[nigelb]

It's no big secret or anything new and revolutionary. I use a:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60-LTR-AIR-PUMP-KOI-PONDS-HYDROPONIC-HAILEA-ACO-318-/200867775989?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item2ec4a705f5
and a 3" ceramic airstone controlled with a 6mm aquarium screw valve. The bubbles for the washes are really gentle for the first 2 washes. The first is genearlly over night and drained off with out being left to stand. Never needed to do that. Another 10lts is then poured in and the pump turned back on again. This is then drained and replaced when I get back from work. For wash 3 the air valve is opened up a bit to allow a bit more aggression and left to bubble over night. By the morning the bio generally has taken on a clear appearance. I let this settle while I'm at work and drain when I get back. I turn the heat on and when up to temperature I bubble on full bore and pump wash with my central heating pump for 30mins or so. Allow to settle and dry with air and a uri geller diffusser.

That's it...no smoke or mirrors here

[Head Womble]

So you bubble wash, for some reason I thought you mist washed.

I did bubble wash in my early days, but had enough of going back and forth with buckets of water,
I'm still setup for it now and hope to have running water and drainage in the shed by the summer.

[nigelb]

Nope...never mist washed, always bubbled. I think some make it over complicated with some stages which arn't entirely needed. The issue some have is having the bubbles too aggressive in the early stages. Then bang on about emulsions and never going back to it. Horses and courses I know but gently to begin with is the key to my method

[nathanrobo]

Nope...never mist washed, always bubbled. I think some make it over complicated with some stages which arn't entirely needed. The issue some have is having the bubbles too aggressive in the early stages. Then bang on about emulsions and never going back to it. Horses and courses I know but gently to begin with is the key to my method

Nige, how long does your process take?  How many interventions?  I also tried bubbling a long time ago, but so much has changed since.  Maybe worth another look?

[nigelb]

Glyc wash, two stage process with ASM 30%, 7% post reaction water wash, 3-4 10lt bubble washes, dry.......that's it.

[nathanrobo]

Hi mate

Gathered most of that!  But post reaction, how long does the process take until you have useable fuel?

Just trying to see if there's something there that might suit me.

[nigelb]

from the start of washing to usable fuel..if I was in a desperate rush would be 36-48hrs. However, I always have fuel in stock and I've never been in a position where I've needed to rush things. I always plan my fuel making well in advance. Rushing fuel production will ultimately lead to errors and mistakes. It ain't a race!

[1958steveflying]

That's sooo cool!  Love new discoveries...

Any idea how much we'd need to add to 100 litres for example?

 I reckon I will try about 1% ie: 18ml in my 180Ltr batches.

 I think you may be right that it could work as an emulsion breaker too.

Steve 1% is 180ml. 18ml is 0.1%.

Acetone as an emulsion breaker, now that's an interesting idea.

Oooops thanks for pointing that out Mark, I always put the decimal point in the wrong place ! !



I would think that few water washers are getting the amazing results that Nige is (20 to 30% batch size amount of water resulting in 10ppm soap with no HMPE's), for those that are maybe this is unlikely to help in anyway.

As a born again water washer who has not perfected such an easy method I will carry on testing with the next batch I make and report back with any findings I feel are pertinent.

I must say that reading the negative comments to the possibility that this may be a diversification that helps in some way has felt more like reading a thread on VOD rather than on here.

 

[RichardP]

That's sooo cool!  Love new discoveries...

Any idea how much we'd need to add to 100 litres for example?

 I reckon I will try about 1% ie: 18ml in my 180Ltr batches.

 I think you may be right that it could work as an emulsion breaker too.

Steve 1% is 180ml. 18ml is 0.1%.

Acetone as an emulsion breaker, now that's an interesting idea.

Oooops thanks for pointing that out Mark, I always put the decimal point in the wrong place ! !



I would think that few water washers are getting the amazing results that Nige is (20 to 30% batch size amount of water resulting in 10ppm soap with no HMPE's), for those that are maybe this is unlikely to help in anyway.

As a born again water washer who has not perfected such an easy method I will carry on testing with the next batch I make and report back with any findings I feel are pertinent.

I must say that reading the negative comments to the possibility that this may be a diversification that helps in some way has felt more like reading a thread on VOD rather than on here.

 

Still in the wrong place, 1% of 180L is 1.8L, 0.1% is 180ml, 0.01% is 18ml

[Carrington]

Hi Steve
I'm happy to try it on my system to see if I can get some positive results that could be posted up and also I can do some tests on the bench with wvo. All up for trying stuff to see what effect it has.

Paul

Do you have enough or should I get some

[1958steveflying]

That's sooo cool!  Love new discoveries...

Any idea how much we'd need to add to 100 litres for example?

 I reckon I will try about 1% ie: 18ml in my 180Ltr batches.

 I think you may be right that it could work as an emulsion breaker too.

Steve 1% is 180ml. 18ml is 0.1%.

Acetone as an emulsion breaker, now that's an interesting idea.

Oooops thanks for pointing that out Mark, I always put the decimal point in the wrong place ! !



I would think that few water washers are getting the amazing results that Nige is (20 to 30% batch size amount of water resulting in 10ppm soap with no HMPE's), for those that are maybe this is unlikely to help in anyway.

As a born again water washer who has not perfected such an easy method I will carry on testing with the next batch I make and report back with any findings I feel are pertinent.

I must say that reading the negative comments to the possibility that this may be a diversification that helps in some way has felt more like reading a thread on VOD rather than on here.

 

Still in the wrong place, 1% of 180L is 1.8L, 0.1% is 180ml, 0.01% is 18ml

LOL thanks Richard... luckily I had the amount in my head rather than the calculation ! !    and as it happens that works out at the percentage I originally found out to add in the final fuel way back when ! ! now that is a coincidence.

[nigelb]

I must say that reading the negative comments to the possibility that this may be a diversification that helps in some way has felt more like reading a thread on VOD rather than on here.

My comments Steve were posted as a positive statement not a negative one. As Mark says:

"A balanced viewpoint is always welcome."

The method, dispite being in it's infancy, could well have an impact on soap reductions. Only time and additional testing will prove it off.

For me...I cant see it happening when water washing brings me the kind of results I've posted details of on this thread.

[1958steveflying]

I must say that reading the negative comments to the possibility that this may be a diversification that helps in some way has felt more like reading a thread on VOD rather than on here.

My comments Steve were posted as a positive statement not a negative one. As Mark says:

"A balanced viewpoint is always welcome."

The method, dispite being in it's infancy, could well have an impact on soap reductions. Only time and additional testing will prove it off.

For me...I cant see it happening when water washing brings me the kind of results I've posted details of on this thread.

Nige this is hardly a positive statement.

"I don't want to rain on your parade guys but there really is no need to add unnecessary chemicals to your bio to lower the soap ppm's further. As a final wash, try a hot pump wash. The residual heat left behind after this process is then used to dry the bio.

Nige"

I wont make anymore references to it.... Promise...