Coffee in the fuel filter..Pt 2

[CanidrivE]

Hi all, got feed-up being of reading error, Bandwidth used up or what ever" so I signed up to here yesterday.

Without having to post any thing over from the other thread and to the likes of county paul, dgs, redsailor and all who else replied, the last batch I done was without my usual acid stop wash

The one thing I did notice was the color change, I have a photograph taken and the link should be down below (hopefully working from face-book)

Left flask is fuel UN-washed from top of reactor
Middle flask is after water 3 wash wash from top of reactor
Right flask is from my storage tank

Dave

https://scontent.fman2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118869771_3808234272524920_4591975884725480745_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Yesn77sc5jIAX-q_BqJ&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=d6cb260ee29110c65ea44ab09407dd2e&oe=5F75B2E9

[Tony]

So the lighter one on the right is from previous batches that have been acid washed?

When you say coffee I assume you mean the runny (well, slow runny) looking brown stuff that's like very light glycerol (which is what I think it is!)

I used to get that to an extent, but all my batches are just settled, rather than washed, so I think it's trace glycerol left over or perhaps a tiny ongoing reaction.  I leave my batches extra long to settle now and that seems to help.

I've seen batches that are darker in colour (like your left ones) sometimes take a very long time to drop the last bits of glycerol out.  Like it's somehow better suspended in the fuel.

I don't do the water shake test for soap any more, I've come to recognise how quickly the foam settles after being violently pumped through a 1u filter.  If bubbles remain on the top and don't quickly pop, it's still soapy...

[CanidrivE]

Hi Tony
The stuff stuck in the fuel filters looks like coffee granules, not runny.

As for the color, since I acid washed "food grade acid" I have always had light coloured end fuel..

Here is one for you "all" to check, I pour my fuel into the car with a 1 inch or more size pipe jammed over the funnel and into the tank filler neck, just where the filler cap sits and deeper down, when I wipe it I get a to quote Tony here "the runny (well, slow runny) looking brown stuff that's like very light glycerol" any one else ever looked just inside the filler cap ?

So the link worked to the photograph
Here is how I done it.
first have a face-book account
upload a photograph
click on the photograph
when loaded, right click on the photograph
select Copy link location

and then paste in here

Dave

[Tony]

Just checked my filler pipe with a bit of rolled up kitchen roll (nearly lost it into the tank!) and it's all clean.

My filling regime is slightly different.  The fuel settles in 120l drums, then I pump out into 25l drums through a 1u filter.  These 25l drums sit outside for at least a week in the sunshine before being put in the car.  Another difference here, I use the "guerrilla refuel" method (pressure started syphon) so the drums remain upright and I am careful not to disturb them when lifting.  I always leave a couple of litres undisturbed at the bottom of the drums, which gets poured back into the youngest settling 120l batch.  Sometimes this includes a little trace of the runny coffee stuff that otherwise would have ended up in the tank if I'd just tipped the drum to pour it, so I shake the 2l up in the 25l drums to suspend it before pouring back into a settling batch.

[dgs]

Hi CanidrivE, I did a test some time ago to see if acid washed/ treated bio was darker than non acid treated and my test proved that yes, it was darker. If you have ever produced bio by the acid esterification process using sulphuric acid it produces very dark bio.

http://biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2906.0  This is a link to the post, sorry but the pictures are a no no.

Is the lighter right hand sample in the photo from the same batch.

[neisel]

Unfamiliar with acid in bio as anything other than an emulsion breaker. What's an acid wash & why do you do it?

TIA.

[Keef]

http://biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Water_washing_titrated_acid_method

[neisel]

Thanks for that, I had seen it & remain confused.

I use a single processor for making, washing & drying Bio & have never used acid except for a couple of times over 7 or 8 years when I've made an emulsion.

Am I missing out?

[dgs]

Even though I did the acid/no acid experiment to see the colour change I have never been keen on using acid (other than breaking a mono emulsion in washed bio showing a soap level of @ 200ppm.)

Trouble with acid is that it hydrolyses the soap into free fatty acids. If the titrated method is used and the soap is high (probably several thousand ppm)  then that amount of ffa's being returned into the bio can't be good, I'm sure it doesn't burn as well in our motors.

[Tony]

Have a look at the photo on page 11 (and 14+) of this report:

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/12/10/1953/pdf

That shows a familiar looking brown goo in a filter and also CP1 high pressure pump.

This is with biodiesel blends, however, to ASTM D6751 standard.  It's interesting because the ASTM standard does set a tight limit on free glyercine, so there may be more going on in terms of reaction between biodiesel and mineral diesel instead.

[CanidrivE]

Hi all.
Tony I will put a photograph of my storage tank on here for you, mine tank does not move and it has a 1u filter on it.

gds, Dave.. my fuel is lighter in color than the stuff with no acid stop bath..

neisel, I do a 2 stag process, BUT, I only make one 33 - 35 ltr of methamix using NaOH .. stage 2 of my work flow is after stag one has been drained of glyce the final 10lts is added to finish off the batch, I run the pump for about an hour, and drain out the glyce over a period of at least one day, keeping this to clean the start of the next batch.  THEN, add 400ml of food grade acid (if diluted 16 / 1 you have chip shop vinegar) + 20ltrs of water with the pump running to give it a good violent mix.  The thinking behind this many years ago was with HC II and myself sitting in a cafe having a chat, was that the acid stopped any more reaction and then would be washed out with a long mist wash with no emulsion being made in the final wash stage.

The batch that I started last Thursday, I am still dropping out glyce, let me explain.
Got the oil on Thursday, put it into the reactor turned it on to bring up to working temp 55 deg C "give or take" turn on motor and add glyce from stage 2 of last batch.
Run for about 1/2 hour. stop drain pipe and after 2 hours drain off glyce, by this time it was 10pm

Friday 9am. Drain glyce, turn on heater, make methamix
10am it is at full working temperature, open valves turn on pump and add about 25ltrs of methamix
11am, turn off pump
12 noon, drain off glyce, turn on pump and add final 10ltrs of methamix
1 pm. turn off pump. drain pipes. Go away for rest of day.
9 pm  drain off glyce

Saturday. 10am or there about, drain glyce only 1 - 2 ltrs
Sunday. as above, but mostly red "ish" looking fuel, not black glyce
Monday. leave it.
Tuesday (tomorrow) drain glyce if any in it, At a guess, I would say from knowing the past it will be red "ish" looking fuel which will give me a total of about 18ltrs of glyce for the next batch.
Wednesday will be wash day

I will not be adding acid, SO ! do I spin the pump and give it a good violent start to wash using 20ltrs of water or just start mist washing??

Dave

Photograph to be added here of storage tank

[CanidrivE]

Tony got a very quick read of that report page 12, I pulled my injectors out of my old Frontera, "failed wiring loom was cause of death at 230k - 130k on B100" got them tested and found to be working near perfect according to the test guys and believe you me, they are keen to get money off people, if the stuff ain't good they will say it.

[Tony]

Wow, that's good news for people that make bio properly and burn it without blending!

[dgs]

Hi CanidrivE, you mentioned in your post 400mls of food grade acid. From what you say this is glacial acetic acid. 400mls is an enormous amount to add, do you really add this or have you made a mistake.

[CanidrivE]

Hi dgs, yes 400ml to 200ltr, that is ? 0.05% ??
If you were to use it as a stop bath, "for the want of a better description" how little would you be using per 200ltrs

What about washing, spin the motor to kick start or just mist wash,

Dave

still have a photograph to put up here for Tony