Pump wash gone wrong.

[julesandtash]

That is why he has never had a water wash go wrong in 8 years - if you dont use a process then it cant go wrong.

[Julian]

).

Don't worry about making the bio acidic.  To the best of my limited knowledge, if you wash and dry thouroughly after an acid wash (or splitting an emulsion), it's not possible for any of the acid you added to remain.

The first and last time I used vinegar as part of the washing process all went fantastically, however Paul AKA Carrington fuels tested for acidity and it was acidic, and with that sample it did not make any difference with subsequent washing it just stayed acidic. Paul also tried other methods of reducing the acidity without success.
  As I really had no intention to use that process anymore I didn't follow up with further testing and just mixed that batch with another which was just washed. I am back to simply settling and centrifuging, a 50/50 test is always clear afterwards.
 

Interesting, how did Paul test the acidity of biodiesel?

[Jamesrl]

I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

I fought U settled and didn't wash.

Very true but why let that stand in the way of a good result.

[Julian]

I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

I fought U settled and didn't wash.

Very true but why let that stand in the way of a good result.

I've never once been bitten when wrestling crocodiles.

[Jamesrl]

I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

I fought U settled and didn't wash.

Very true but why let that stand in the way of a good result.

I've never once been bitten when wrestling crocodiles.

You should stop that, it's very dangerous, one day you're gonna get bitten.

[Tony]

I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

I fought U settled and didn't wash.

Very true but why let that stand in the way of a good result.

I've never once been bitten when wrestling crocodiles.

In all fairness I'd be pretty bitey if I was a crocodile and someone tried to water wash their bio with me.

[1958steveflying]

).

Don't worry about making the bio acidic.  To the best of my limited knowledge, if you wash and dry thouroughly after an acid wash (or splitting an emulsion), it's not possible for any of the acid you added to remain.

The first and last time I used vinegar as part of the washing process all went fantastically, however Paul AKA Carrington fuels tested for acidity and it was acidic, and with that sample it did not make any difference with subsequent washing it just stayed acidic. Paul also tried other methods of reducing the acidity without success.
  As I really had no intention to use that process anymore I didn't follow up with further testing and just mixed that batch with another which was just washed. I am back to simply settling and centrifuging, a 50/50 test is always clear afterwards.
 

Interesting, how did Paul test the acidity of biodiesel?

Sorry to be honest it was that long ago the tech info has been overwritten in my brain. As he had spent a good couple of hours trying this that and the other trying to lower the acidity I had already decided it was too risky to have acidic Bio and put the whole process out of my mind.

[Julian]

My info came from a mate who's a PhD in chemistry.  Bio's not his branch of chemistry, but he seems to know what he's talking about.  Just on logic, what my mate says seems to make sense to my simplistic brain, in the the acid we add ie sulfuric is a water based substance.

Assuming the bio holds water during washing (noticeable by the colour and clarity), then it can hold some of the sulfuric acid.  Further washing will dilute the acid and once the bio is completely dried it can no longer exist.

This issue has always confused me.  I thought I had it straight having had the discussion with my mate, but now from what you report Paul has stated, I'm back in the realms of confusion.

I'll try dropping Paul a mail and see what he says.

[Manfred]

I just did a ph paper test on my dried bio. 50/50 with water shuck up read 7. I then added 1 ml of 30% sulphuric to a new sample! shuck it up then added water as a 50/50 test. I got a instant 1. So maybe we can test the water as it seems to transfer over from the Bio.

 I will leave overnight to settle then dry the sample tomorrow to see if it goes back to neutral. Will be interesting.

[Julian]

When I first started acid washing I tested the wash water with litmus paper.  It was always neutralish after a couple of washes.

[julianf]

I just did a ph paper test on my dried bio. 50/50 with water shuck up read 7. I then added 1 ml of 30% sulphuric to a new sample! shuck it up then added water as a 50/50 test. I got a instant 1. So maybe we can test the water as it seems to transfer over from the Bio.

 I will leave overnight to settle then dry the sample tomorrow to see if it goes back to neutral. Will be interesting.

I would be think that hydrogen ions (acidity) would transfer to the water easily.  Im wondering what the scenario could be where they would not?

This is relevant to both testing the acidity of the bio (as above) and washing the acid from the bio (as in Steve's case) - so i wonder what was happening with Steve's bio?

[1958steveflying]

I just did a ph paper test on my dried bio. 50/50 with water shuck up read 7. I then added 1 ml of 30% sulphuric to a new sample! shuck it up then added water as a 50/50 test. I got a instant 1. So maybe we can test the water as it seems to transfer over from the Bio.

 I will leave overnight to settle then dry the sample tomorrow to see if it goes back to neutral. Will be interesting.

I would be think that hydrogen ions (acidity) would transfer to the water easily.  Im wondering what the scenario could be where they would not?

This is relevant to both testing the acidity of the bio (as above) and washing the acid from the bio (as in Steve's case) - so i wonder what was happening with Steve's bio?

Paul could not work out why further washes were not reducing it in this instance, so long as people are happy that they are getting near on Ph neutral Bio that is all that matters.

[Manfred]

Really interesting results on the Ph testing. After leaving the sample 24 hours to settle out, I tested the bio and got a neutral reading, the water however still read acidic.  So  the water must have fell out of suspension. Heating the bio to drive off any moisture read the same, neutral.  So bio can't  hold an acidic reading unless water is present.

[Julian]

Really interesting results on the Ph testing. After leaving the sample 24 hours to settle out, I tested the bio and got a neutral reading, the water however still read acidic.  So  the water must have fell out of suspension. Heating the bio to drive off any moisture read the same, neutral.  So bio can't  hold an acidic reading unless water is present.

That what I thought, but Paul, although self taught, is quite a whiz at bio chemistry.  I've sent him an email but as yet haven't received a reply.

I'm reserving judgment until I hear Paul's side of things.

What ever the outcome, I don't think testing bio using litmus paper is viable ... the wash water yes, but not bio.  I'm guessing Paul may have used some form of titration.

[Manfred]

I agree it's the water to be tested or preferably a titration if possible.