Author Topic: Pump wash gone wrong.  (Read 10710 times)

Offline Manfred

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Pump wash gone wrong.
« on: March 01, 2014, 10:50:11 AM »
After a perfect 10/90 on a 90 ltr mix I did a pre wash then 3x 10 ltr pump washes. Result  the water was sparkling clear. So being the sort who  prods wet paint to see if it's dry I did one more wash. Bum soapy water with a white interface. No worries I put 2 ltr of Glycol and mixed, looked ok so added 10 ltr of warm water. Instant mayonnaise so I added acid until split. Peed me off as I didn't want to do this because of interfering with the acid soap test. So now I'm back to square one. Has anyone else experienced this ?

Offline Julian

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 12:18:38 PM »
Recently had my first emulsion when doing a 7% prewash with the glycerin.  I magined to split it with acid but it wasn't a very convincing split, separating to two phases ... water and what I assume was a dark brown bio glycerin mix which showed only tentative signs of dropping the glycerin.

I think if I'd been more patient, it would have split but as it's log burner season I made it into blogs (or has that word already been coined)

As for subsequent washes, I usually do a titrated acid wash which has never resulted in an emulsion, save the first signs of one created mechanically by Frankenpump. (just running another batch at the moment and I think the combination of Frankenpump and convoluted pipework are showing rather good benefits ... if my thoughts are correct, I'll put up another thread).

Don't worry about making the bio acidic.  To the best of my limited knowledge, if you wash and dry thouroughly after an acid wash (or splitting an emulsion), it's not possible for any of the acid you added to remain.

The only realistic action you have is to carry on washing and test it.  Posting your results would be of great interest.
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Offline Manfred

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 12:24:55 PM »
We'll I'm on the second 10 ltr pump wash after my mayo disaster and all seems ok.  I just can't  figure why it happened after a perfect clear pump wash. All wash water is from the hot tap so temp is 40 Deg. in the processor.

Offline Manfred

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 12:27:16 PM »
Ps. With the acid I got the brown scum appear, same as you got in a earlier post.

Offline Julian

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 12:48:37 PM »
Ps. With the acid I got the brown scum appear, same as you got in a earlier post.

I wish my chemistry was better, but I think that's sodium sulfate (if you used sulfuric acid).  Keep washing and dry well and I'm sure it will be OK.

These little hiccups happen from time to time.  Often due to the brewer becoming blasé about things (well, usually is in my case), but that's what makes brewing fun!
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Offline julesandtash

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 01:08:24 PM »
It's something in the air - I blame the polar vortex.....

No only kidding. I do have a troublesome batch just finishing washing now as well. It was only around half my normal batch size as emptying the oil storage tank before dumping a load of palm in there to melt. All went well up to first water wash after the acid which went very wrong and the next after it wasn't much better.

In the end I did another acid wash and left that to settle overnight. All seems to be OK now thankfully and I should be drying it overnight tonight.
7+ years of making bio.
1997 RangeRover P38A 2.5DSE and 2001 Audi Allroad 2.5 V6 Tdi all on B100
Home heating and hot water system on Palm based B100 and Aarrow 7KW wood burner on glycerol logs

Offline Julian

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 01:23:25 PM »
Nice to know we're in good company!
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 01:35:26 PM »
I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

Offline Manfred

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 01:42:50 PM »

Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #7 on: Today at 01:35:26 pm »
Quote
I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.

 I didn't know I was that good. I only been doing it 8 months  :)

Offline Julian

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 01:47:09 PM »
Ask the old bugger to qualify his statement a little!
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Offline Manfred

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 02:13:51 PM »
Been thinking about this. Even though I had a instant 10/90 if I had any mono and diglycerides present, after a clear wash taking out any buffer with it would any more washes cause these to create the emulsion I got ?
 After two more 10 ltr washes Ph paper indicated neutral water so I tritated for soap and got 15 ppm. Going for a dry then settle to see what falls out.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 02:17:58 PM by Manfred »

Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2014, 02:49:06 PM »
Ask the old bugger to qualify his statement a little!

Ok, it's got an NVQ.

Offline julesandtash

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2014, 06:56:54 PM »
Doesn't that stand for Not Very Qualified Jim?  Much like HND stands for Have No Degree

7+ years of making bio.
1997 RangeRover P38A 2.5DSE and 2001 Audi Allroad 2.5 V6 Tdi all on B100
Home heating and hot water system on Palm based B100 and Aarrow 7KW wood burner on glycerol logs

Offline 1958steveflying

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 07:15:23 PM »
).

Don't worry about making the bio acidic.  To the best of my limited knowledge, if you wash and dry thouroughly after an acid wash (or splitting an emulsion), it's not possible for any of the acid you added to remain.


The first and last time I used vinegar as part of the washing process all went fantastically, however Paul AKA Carrington fuels tested for acidity and it was acidic, and with that sample it did not make any difference with subsequent washing it just stayed acidic. Paul also tried other methods of reducing the acidity without success.
  As I really had no intention to use that process anymore I didn't follow up with further testing and just mixed that batch with another which was just washed. I am back to simply settling and centrifuging, a 50/50 test is always clear afterwards.
 

Offline 1958steveflying

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Re: Pump wash gone wrong.
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 07:17:23 PM »
I've never had a water wash go wrong in 8 yrs.


I fought U settled and didn't wash.