Author Topic: Two drum processor page  (Read 8467 times)

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 09:27:15 PM »
All these clips are on here i think
50/50 soap test
Eductor
wet oil HPT
dry oil HPT
WVO drying

these arent
Diffuser

Eductor/spray bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZXhWEwyXA

Spray bar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P96GzZUtF7Y

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6391
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 01:16:04 AM »
Keith, graphic for the processor is up on your Two drum page.  I rearranged it a little to give an easer layout but it still functions the same.

Is this OK before I proceed?
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 09:01:12 AM »
Looks spot on Julian,nice one

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6391
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2010, 11:09:00 AM »
Hi all,

State diagram for Two drum processor has been uploaded, would someone mind checking it over please.

I think I need modify the schematic to show the sight tube connected to the left of valve V2.  There must be other mistakes, please scrutinise carefully!
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline Tony

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 5114
  • Fo' shizzle, biodizzle
    • Southampton Waste Oil Collection
  • Location: Southampton
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2010, 04:36:32 PM »
Ok Julian will have a peer later :)

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2010, 08:56:32 PM »
Some thoughts
7% is the ideal amount of prewash water,i actually always prewash,i reserve the glyc prewash for high titrating oil,which touch wood i dont often get
General consensus is to get the methanol in as quick as poss,it used to be thought 20mins was optimum
There should be no problems as the pumps will not spark internally
Poss to convert to GL -yuk,Why would anybody want to downgrade this to a GL? (thats a jest Julian :)  )
On the low level flaw-surely thats a flaw with any processor?
Where it says requires a wash tank- this design is equally suited to a settling tank or drywash tower its just in my case ive paired it with a wash tank,the only problem with stating this is it requires the methanol to be bubbled off to settle or drywash,bubbling the meth to air is probably still the most common way,not here but stateside and Aus from what ive read - but do we take an enviro angle on this? personally i would,nt but i can understand if others disagree (ref the stick e3msb got a few weeks ago for saying he sometimes does it that way)

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6391
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 01:09:33 PM »
Keith,

Thanks for that. I've changed 5% to 7% and altered the much maligned GL processor page to reflect.

I know recent perceived wisdom states add Methoxide at full bore and have altered the GL page to suit.  The reference to slow introduction on your page was only when using the pump suction for that purpose.  I understand there is little chance of a spark especially with a brass impellor within a cast iron housing.  However, I believe the mechanical seal relies, to a degree, on lubrication from the liquid being pumped and I'm uncertain as to the lubricating properties, if any, of Methoxide. 

The seal is a source of friction and therefore possible heat and with the wrong combination of valves an inexperienced user could run the pump on pure Methoxide which I think should be avoided at all costs.  I should, perhaps make it more obvious that the oil circulation should be running full bore and the Methoxide bled into this flow.  Other than time, there are no issues in introducing the Methoxide slowly.

Thanks, although grossly misguided, I did cotton on to the jest!  It pains me to admit that with the last two batches, in an attempt to eradicate HMPEs or what ever we are now calling the ones that don't liquefy until 30-40°C, I have pretty much emulated the procedure you use on your processor without the water wash, with apparent success.

I'm also wondering if all the bells and whistles I've spent time making are worthwhile.  I spent ages making an adjustable squirrel which apparently speeded the distilling process when run with a tank temp of 85°C.  However I found that when the squirrel was turned off and normal distilling continued at 85°C the distillation rate was the same!

Re the exposed heater issue, I pointed out the problem both on your design and on the GL (well, Graham did in his original text).  It doesn't however, apply to Paddy's design, so in order to present the facts to newcomers I think it's only fair to point out these issues, especially where safety is concerned.


Good point re the wash tank, I'll try and word thing so that settling and bubbling can be used as alternatives.  Maybe it would offer a more easily understood explanation if each had a separate page, any of which could be used in conjunction with your processor.
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline Tony

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 5114
  • Fo' shizzle, biodizzle
    • Southampton Waste Oil Collection
  • Location: Southampton
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 01:45:48 PM »
Valve combo table looks good Julian.

I haven't prewashed in a long time, might try it to see again if there is any affect on HMPEs.

As a point of interest on the Methoxide/pump thing, the chap I buy mine from dispenses it with a non-ATEX rated pump, but out in the open air.  He's been using the same pump for a very long time without apparent issues.

The only worry would be accidentally isolating a pump full of Methanol, which would heat up and up without fluid flow through it.

As for the squirrel, you're the second person I know to observe that.  I've always been unconvinced regarding it's benefit as you're no doubt aware - aside from the extra turnover of the second pump and a nice high surface area spray for evaporation.

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 02:52:01 PM »


As for the squirrel, you're the second person I know to observe that.  I've always been unconvinced regarding it's benefit as you're no doubt aware
Understatement of the year there Tony :)

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6391
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2010, 03:59:05 PM »
Tony,
Do you mean pre-water wash?  If so. I found it didn't help in the slightest although HCII has stated it cured his "HMPE" problem ... may vary with feed stock.

I've only tried Glycerol prewash once with pre-water wash glycerol and wasn't impressed.  Seemed to emulsify what was beautifully clean oil and resulted in bio that stayed cloudy in the settling tank until I returned it to the processor and heated it to 30ish °C.  Best cold weather bio I've made to date though survived -8°C, just going a little cloudy at low temps. and then clearing again as it warmed a little.  No "HMPEs" as far as I could tell although I did chill it and got some precipitate on the coil which didn't remelt and felt different to "normal" "HMPEs".  Major difference between this batch and others was keeping the temperatures low Whilst the Bio was in contact with Glycerol.

ATEX rating, I think, is more to do with the atmosphere in which the equipment is sited than internal issues, but I'd still feel uncomfortable guiding anyone towards pumping Metrhoxide with a pump unsuited for purpose ... people could be using all sorts of pumps on their processors, not just TAMS and Leos.

I was disappointed with the Squirrel result.  I even tried running it way above Jim's recommended maximum pressure with no improvement and no explosion!  One thing that reinforced my doubts was switching off both pumps but leaving the heater on at 85°C, early in the distillation. Listening to the tank it sounded like a minor volcanic eruption with Methanol evaporating violently at the heater.

The only thing I haven't tried is an eductor. These do seem worthwhile and I'll hopefully have a bash at one shortly ... could assist in wiki pages on both eductors and silver soldering.
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Two drum processor page
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2010, 08:55:14 PM »
I will be interested to hear your results with an eductor