No wonder I've had lumpy starting

[greasemonkey]

I thought they fitted into the inlet manifold to heat the fuel prior to injection

No, they heat the air, prior to induction.
With a petrol engine, so long as the mixture in the cylinder is correct, and properly compressed, it will explode when it gets a spark.
With a diesel, the air is compressed first, then the fuel is introduced. The explosion is dependant upon the air in the cylinder being at a certain temperature. If it is not at that temperature, then it simply will not explode when the fuel is injected. The flame plug makes sure that the air is at or above the right temperature.

[greasemonkey]

I've just E mailed CAV and Beru, to get the lowdown on unpressurised flame plugs. I will post up if/when they get back to me.

Well waddya know, CAV Automotive have just replied to me. "Sorry, this company does not make those goods"......

[McDuff]

No, they heat the air, prior to induction.
With a petrol engine, so long as the mixture in the cylinder is correct, and properly compressed, it will explode when it gets a spark.
With a diesel, the air is compressed first, then the fuel is introduced. The explosion is dependant upon the air in the cylinder being at a certain temperature. If it is not at that temperature, then it simply will not explode when the fuel is injected. The flame plug makes sure that the air is at or above the right temperature - absolutely correct, mind not on the ball, as only air goes through the manifold - the fuel is injected

[greasemonkey]

Introduced/injected. Wrong word.

[nigelb]

its prolly decomposed by now to dust and blown out, as that end could of been off weeks months, you maybe safe

No..I dont think so. I reckon the whole of the glow part of the plug is still there. Probably held in by carbon and could esily fall into the combustion chamber stuffing the engine completely. I was probably a fool starting it up. Unless someone can come up with any ideas I think the head will be coming off. Shame really...not something I can do.

[Rotary-Motion]

if it was metal the end bit you could get a magnet down there one of  those radio type telescopic things down the hole...

i wouldnt think there is enough room to hide in carbon more its stuck itself in head or piston top. like valves do when cam snaps

[Bio Dervotee]

Hi, is your glow plug tapered at the end? or parallel? if its tapered, its not going anywhere inside the engine. Running it with the screw part of the plug removed is what I would have tried, if the plug end had broken up you would know coz detonation would have been coming out through the glow plug hole.
Can you start the engine with three plugs? Maybe by giving it a double or triple heat? If it starts ok I would put broken plug back in and keep using it until such time as more work on engine is required.   If you need to take the head off then you will also need to change the head gasket set, timing belt, tensioner/s and maybe worth doing the water pump at the same time if its an awkward b to change. I'm not familiar with latest golf diesel engine but i would try to avoid removing the head just now, its not a job for winter. best of luck with it

[Tony]

Tony,
What make of plugs are you using, mine tends to go through NGKs in 2 years but they have always completely failed never had one like that.
GM may fit a flame plug to the lister what pressure diesel do they need?
Dick

I had these fitted for the last few weeks:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150825702255

I figured for £20 for a set they were worth a punt but maybe they aren't - I only changed to them because one of the NKG CY55s gave up after four years of hard service and normally they're about £20 each.  I bought another NKG anyway, so she's back on 4x CY55s again, I don't anticipate any trouble with them!

[nigelb]

Without getting a vernier on the end I would not know of it was tapered or not. However, the plug does have a tapered seat...looks like 45 degrees where the plug sits inside the head to seal it against any blow by. This bit has come out and it is just the glow part that remains in the glow plug bore. Not sure how it remains there even with the pressure of the engine running. Most odd.

As stated in my first post in this thread I have had the engine running...from cold to operating temperature with no issues. This is not ideal though. What if the glow part of the plug falls into the combustion chamber? New engine I reckon. The damage could be huge, especially at speed.

If the head needs to come off then the belts will be changed...goes without saying really for the sake of £20 to £30.

The golf is a non pd 1.9 SDI.....W reg

[william crosby]

nige

If its just old type sdi  i would try taking the injector out and getting an adaptor(the type used for compression tester)fitted in place of the injector and connect to compressed air and keep the cylinder full of air while getting the glowplug end out. That way nothing should go into the cylinder.REMEMBER TO WEAR SAFTEY GLASSES.

cheers william

[nigelb]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Golf-MK4-1-9-SDi-TDi-Diesel-Glow-Plugs-1998-2004-/230747392473?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item35b99dc9d9

These are similar to the ones I bought.

Nige

[nigelb]

That is a great idea William and very do-able. Now where can I get an air supply to do the job? 

[william crosby]

nige

If you can get a large enough compressor it may just blow it out of the head as you can heat with blow torch while cylinder is compressed.It will come out like a bullet so dont stand over it.

[Tony]

I presume it would be a bad idea to fill the cylinder with oil/water, then refit the injector, hydraulically locking it, then trying to push the glow plug tip out by turning the engine by hand?

Might break something I suppose, or pop the head gasket.  Just throwing the thought out there!

[nigelb]

Is there any data out there that states the typical pressure generated in a 1.9SDI engine when running...just so I know what would need to be exceeded.