Author Topic: Blending Methanol into our bio. (Read 8827 times)

dgs · « **on:** October 31, 2018, 06:12:41 PM »

Has anyone ever tried this, according to this link it seems to work well.

Had a chat with Ginger today and he directed me to this;

https://eprints.usq.edu.au/25006/1/Yusaf_Hamawand_Baker_Najafi_PV.pdf

Here is the conclusion if you don't want to read it all

Methanol–diesel blended fuel was successfully tested in a diesel engine. Experimental
results showed that the output power and torque for the methanol–diesel blend fuel were
higher than for the conventional diesel fuel alone. The exhaust gas temperature was
found to be higher when the diesel fuel was used alone compared to the blended fuel.
Also, the brake specific fuel consumption for the mixed fuel was lower than for the pure
diesel fuel. It has been shown in this research that the addition of 10% methanol to the
diesel fuel may have a great impact on the engine performance and the environment.

Julian · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2018, 09:09:30 PM »

Sounds interesting.

A few points spring to mind …

Haven't read it in full, but the paper, I assume, talks only of petrodiesel wonder if it would have a similar effect on bio. They also mention introducing it into the air intake.

Would we run into problems in the UK as the methanol we commonly use is not duty paid? I seem to remember you can use a small percentage of fuel additive free of tax, but I can't remember how much it was.

Tony · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2018, 10:29:45 AM »

Ten years ago one commercial company used to blend it with their bio as a winteriser.

Back in the day when we were all uncertain about testing for completeness of reaction adding methanol to the fuel was seen as a way to get unexpected reaction in the fuel tank, creating glycerol - but I'm a bit sceptical about that as once a batch has the glyc dropped the catalyst goes with it.

We remove it to stop it holding soap in suspension when settling (or wash it out) but once you have the finished product I guess you could add it back in.

What would be the effect on components of the fuel system though? According to http://www.biopowered.co.uk/download/FIEM.pdf

Free methanol in FAME:

- Corrodes aluminium & zinc
- Low flash point

- Corrosion of FIE (fuel injection equipment)

I think, fuel duty issues aside, that it doesn't sound like a great idea.

dgs · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2018, 05:57:54 PM »

Just some of my thoughts on the report.

It does mention bio (somewhere) I can't see that any advantage would be less if using bio.

I can't see HMRC being concerned if the total volume including any blended bits & pieces were not to exceed 2500 litres.

One concern would be that the blended methanol didn't exceed the water level of my bio ie 300ppm. So 99.97% should be ok.

The link in Tony's post was written in 2000 It seems to me that 18 years ago biodiesel production (commercial and private) was a much more agricultural sort of thing. Was the Warnqvist test available then, probably not. Even now very few of us are concerned about di and monoglycerides being present so why not methanol.

I know of several home brewers some of which are UK forum members that don't de-meth at all. Their bio is just settled for a short time and then used. Are these people car killers any more than the rest of us. Well unless they are keeping very quiet about it, seemingly not.

Tony wrote, " Ten years ago one commercial company used to blend it with their bio as a winteriser"
I wonder if there was any comeback from this.

Tony · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2018, 08:53:37 AM »

Quote from: dgs on November 01, 2018, 05:57:54 PM

Tony wrote, " Ten years ago one commercial company used to blend it with their bio as a winteriser"
I wonder if there was any comeback from this.

Unfortunately they also water washed and weren't very diligent about removing all the water from their fuel. They had comeback from car damage (bit hard to refute when a drum sample has free water floating at the bottom) and soon went out of business. So I suspect the methanol aspect was the least of their concerns. That they allowed free water into customer's fuel is probably an indication of how much they really cared/understood about the process.

dgs · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2018, 05:16:23 PM »

Indeed Tony and I know they wern't the only commercial company that didn't really care about the quality of their fuel.

K.H · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2018, 08:44:43 PM »

If Bio burns cooler than Diesel and Methanol was to lower it further would it not cause problems with DPF,s that rely on a high temp to regenerate?

Tony · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2018, 02:16:43 PM »

Quote from: K.H on November 05, 2018, 08:44:43 PM

If Bio burns cooler than Diesel and Methanol was to lower it further would it not cause problems with DPF,s that rely on a high temp to regenerate?

I've often wondered whether that would cause problems just with biodiesel alone, though evidently some people manage with a DPF just fine.

ginger payne · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2018, 06:10:24 PM »

hi all I have added methanol to my biodiesel. First try I added 5% the car ran badly. I added the same amount of biodiesel diesel and it ran ok. so 2.5% is alright. I could understand why 5% was so bad so I tried it again same result rubbish. I wondered if there was something else going on. Perhaps ecu intervention? I removed the battery negative lead turned on the headlights and left it for 30 minutes, to drain the ecu long term memory. I reconnected the battery started the engine and let it tick over for 30 minutes took it for a drive. took it to the motorway to re set the top end performance. the result was excellent 3500 in all gears. This is worth doing the car now runs a treat.
The mixture I now run is 5% methanol and 0.015% acetone to stabilize the mix.

Tony · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2018, 08:42:38 AM »

Interesting results ginger payne.

I just re-read the thread and what I didn't catch last time around was that the methanol was injected in the air intake (rather than mixed with the fuel).

Given it's quite common for water injection on performance cars (or 50:50 water methanol mix) this sounds a lot safer than methanol going via the injection equipment.

How many miles have you done on your 5% mixture?

dgs · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2018, 10:04:26 AM »

Tony, ginger is mixing the methanol into his fuel.

ginger payne · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2018, 03:30:07 PM »

hi my car is a 2010 common rail diesel. the vehicle was not fitted with a dpf. I am very concerned about water in the fuel as the injectors are expensive. With help from dave we got that sorted. My thinking is that water and methanol mix and you can add water to methanol and it will combust. one thing I noticed when I use the methanol mix the cold start warm up time was much faster. I put this down to the water being combusted and not cooling engine. I have run this mix for about 400miles. I will post if I break it.

Julian · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »

I wonder if this would help wintersing the bio?

ginger payne · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2018, 10:12:32 AM »

Hi all the viscosity will be lower with the added methanol so it will help. we have had a couple of window scraping mornings and the car fired up instantly. I intend to use this mix all winter. The performance of my car with this mix is much better, I think this may be because the injectors on my vehicle have eight holes, they are very small , they may be passing a bit more fuel. Food for thought,

nigelb · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »

The volume of fuel being injected won't change with your new blend. Injector quantity will be the same. The way the fuel is atomised prior to the "squeeze & bang" may well be effected.

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