Copper or iron pipe?

[Soft top]

I want to pump bio with a tam 105 from a tank in a basement room up to street level. Then to car via meter and hose.
The pipe from pump to meter will be about 5 meters long.
Should it be black iron or is copper ok?

Also, I will be using a nozzle with auto cut off. Can anyone recommend a bypass valve to use?

[Julian]

I used PE water pipe ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1190.0.html

Been in for over a year and no problems what so ever.  Far easier and cheaper the black iron or copper, but DON'T used the connectors with O rings.  If you hunt around you can find 25mm compression fittings with metal inserts ... BES will do them.

The Merlett Polipo PU lined hose which I used to connect the storage tank to the dispensing nozzle and is supposed to be bio resistant, leaks like crazy at the hose tails ... can't workout why, but the PU water pipe compression joints are perfect.

Some of the vane type diesel transfer pumps have a built in bypass which relieves pressure when the nozzle is closed.  Mine is of this type by the bypass only allows a small flow so I fitted a pressure switch too.  If you do this you need a non return valve so the pump builds and retains pressure on the switch.  The switch is a very one I had kicking around, made by Bailey and Mackie Ltd, I'd guess they are no longer in production, so can't help in that respect.

[Soft top]

I have 6 metres of old 1" copper the thick walled stuff and I also have loads of fittings for it so was hoping to use that but I thought I had heard somewhere that copper should not be used with bio. I know that some people use copper cylinders for processors and my processor has copper pipes but the bio does not stay in them for long.
With what I am building a lot of the pipework will still be full of bio when I turn the pump off. I don't really want to mess around draining it all every time I use it.

[K.H]

Black iron, as you say copper reacts over time leaving a green slime

[greasemonkey]

I don't know so much about bio, but at least with veg, I find that if the veg is left in the pipe, it's fine. It's when it emptys and fills all the time, that the green slime builds up.
Probably best going for the iron any how, your on the safe side then.

[willbuild]

Given the choice, I agree with julian. plastic with compression fittings with inserts. Its also more flexible, quick and simple to alter or repair and prop cheaper

[Soft top]

Before rushing out to buy iron or plastic pipe and fittings I thought of trying an experiment.

11 days ago I put a copper fitting into some bio and also a copper fitting into some wvo.
In the picture the wvo on the right started turning green within a day and now is very green and if I lift out the fitting it has slime on it.
The bio in the centre has a very very slight hint of green after 11 days.
The jar on the left contains bio from the same batch as centre jar but with nothing in it so colours can be compared.

[julesandtash]

The Merlett Polipo PU lined hose which I used to connect the storage tank to the dispensing nozzle and is supposed to be bio resistant, leaks like crazy at the hose tails ... can't workout why, but the PU water pipe compression joints are perfect.

Mine started to leak recently at the end where the hose tail for the nozzle is fixed into it.
I just cut off six inches of hose, refitted the tail and all is fine again.

I wonder if the jubilee clip damages the PU liner?
Interestingly the other end, which also has a hose tail into a 3/4" valve but never moves is fine, only the end which is always being flexed near the nozzle started to leak

[Tony]

Iron pipe is cheaper per meter than copper now, but this assumes you have a die kit.  The plastic HEP2O water pipe is surprisingly resilient to bio, I've had some for seven years that has had hot bio pumped through it regularly and it is completely fine - I would go for that personally.  But as observed use inserts with compression fittings rather than the pushfit fittings themselves.

[Julian]

The Merlett Polipo PU lined hose which I used to connect the storage tank to the dispensing nozzle and is supposed to be bio resistant, leaks like crazy at the hose tails ... can't workout why, but the PU water pipe compression joints are perfect.

Mine started to leak recently at the end where the hose tail for the nozzle is fixed into it.
I just cut off six inches of hose, refitted the tail and all is fine again.

I wonder if the jubilee clip damages the PU liner?
Interestingly the other end, which also has a hose tail into a 3/4" valve but never moves is fine, only the end which is always being flexed near the nozzle started to leak

Glad I'm not the only one!

I've tried cutting off the ends, but still the same.

I thought perhaps the barbs on the hose tail were cutting the liner, so I changed them for 22mm copper (obviously smooth) ... still the same.  I'm not using jubilee clips. I used hydraulic hose clips all same this ...




in the futile hope they would be less prone to leaking.

I'd love to know what the problem is as I have a completely bio tight delivery system from the shed to the car with the exception of this frigging hose.

I might try sending  Oily Bits and email and see if they have any suggestions.  I'll mention that two members have had similar problems ... anyone else had similar issues to add strength to the enquiry?

[Julian]

Before rushing out to buy iron or plastic pipe and fittings I thought of trying an experiment.

11 days ago I put a copper fitting into some bio and also a copper fitting into some wvo.
In the picture the wvo on the right started turning green within a day and now is very green and if I lift out the fitting it has slime on it.
The bio in the centre has a very very slight hint of green after 11 days.
The jar on the left contains bio from the same batch as centre jar but with nothing in it so colours can be compared.

Interesting experiment, not sure I've heard of anyone doing it before.

It would be a great photo for the wiki.  Would you mind taking a few more over time and uploading them?  We can then find or create a page for them.

I had some info from a mate with a chemistry PhD on the effect of methanol on aluminium which is posted somewhere ... perhaps we could have a materials compatibility page.

[Soft top]

[/quote]


Interesting experiment, not sure I've heard of anyone doing it before.

It would be a great photo for the wiki.  Would you mind taking a few more over time and uploading them?  We can then find or create a page for them.

I had some info from a mate with a chemistry PhD on the effect of methanol on aluminium which is posted somewhere ... perhaps we could have a materials compatibility page.

[/quote]

Yep. Im happy to do that. In fact this evening I got some bio from the same batch and dropped a brass fitting into it to see what happens..........

[Tony]

Brass seems to turn a very golden yellow when submerged.  I guess it too will stain the bio with a green effect.
I wonder what it is they put in Brasso to make it clean the oxidised layer of copper?  Maybe we're missing a trick, we should be selling bio-based copper cleaning solutions

[K.H]

I tested a some different things a few years ago, over a six month period incl copper brass and a few various plastics, i posted the results on the VOD so i guess they are long gone.
It would be good if Soft top does it and posts the results

[Julian]

I have some printed samples of PLA sitting in bio and methanol.  I'll take some photos and make a few notes ... just can't remember how long ago I set them up!