Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Chatter => Topic started by: Head Womble on July 07, 2014, 08:24:15 PM
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As some of you know Lynda has requested a hot tub for next years bash,
it's not to be anything shop brought but something built by us lot using our normal scavenging attributes.
The initial thoughts are to run it off the Lister, the Lister providing the heat and the pump.
The tub it's self could be made from hay bales with a liner dropped in.
So has anyone got some other ideas.
Can this be made a sticky please.
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I would imagine the liner is the problem getting one big enough
also I got a brand new BnQ £5 pump they were selling many moons ago to donate to the tub and its bubble blower
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I would imagine the liner is the problem getting one big enough
also I got a brand new BnQ £5 pump they were selling many moons ago to donate to the tub and its bubble blower
I was thinking builders plastic sheeting (the thick black stuff) for the liner, or pond liner but that would have to be paid for.
Donated parts so far = 1 x B&Q pump (thanks RM)
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I have a spare 10 feet diameter, 26 inches deep inflatable pool. The pool liner is perfectly water tight, it's just the inflatable ring around the top leaks air which causes the pool to fall over but, if we could support it with hay bales then that would be fine. Holds 3500 litres of water although it is circular so maybe not the easiest to support with bales.
I have just ordered an arduino and four temperature sensors for my pool controller (pool temp, air temp, flow and return temps) to monitor the temperature and switch the flow on and off from the pool pump to the heat exchanger when needed. As my pool wont be needed during the BBB, I would be happy to bring it along but would want to take it home after the event.
We could use the lister but will need to put a decent load on it. If it is just idling it will never make enough heat. Ideally we would want around 2.5KW of load on it and even then, without an exhaust heat exchanger, the water jacket will only be giving around 2 to 3KW of heat.
It would need some pretty big pumps to load it to 2.5KW
The alternative is an old oil boiler run on bio (it's what I use every day).
A 15KW or so boiler, a couple of pumps (one for the boiler circuit, one for the pool to heat exchanger circuit), a flat plat heat exchanger, a header tank and some pipe will do it.
Running the pool water through a heat exchanger rather than straight through the boiler will stop any rust staining of the water and a boiler is a far more controllable heat source than the lister.
22mm PEX or copper pipe would seem the easiest material for connecting the boiler/heat exchanger, with 1" flexible pipe more suited for the pool connections.
Filtering would be a good idea too, some 10" housings and filter elements should see to that unless someone fancies building a sand filter.
Some good electrical protection will be needed (not sure of the earthing arrangements on Chugs power in the field) with electric pumps and a big container full of warm water and people. I'm sure Vince could deal with that.
Pool chemicals will also be a good idea considering that quite a few of us will be wanting to pile into it.
NigelB's chemical supplier does pool chemicals so could hopefully supply some chlorine and algaecide.
Having just come in from a dip in my new pool (still a 10" one but 30" deep and complete with a tubular steel frame) which is nice an warm from bio heating, I am more than happy to assist with implementation.
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I think Jules idea is about the best. I'm developing a boiler collecting habit, so may be able to provide, unless I've vandalised them all by then.
Builders polythene may work, but a couple of foot of water takes some holding back. The bales would have to be lashed together somehow. I'd be thinking about putting carpet under it, too, to stop any punctures.
A ready made poool would be coool......
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huge metal bars pounded into ground behind each bale, plus tie rope round side of bails
and tonys burner gismo heat HE to get heat in
2 bails high and fit tank connectors to liner at first level with silicon sealer and say 4 a side to blow jets of water for the massage feature
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Steve's syphon nozzle and bean can blast tube burner would work well into a boiler instead of the normal burner. That way there is a potential to burn hot liquid glycerol
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Bubbles ... we've got to have bubbles.
I'll drop my strides, dip my backside in and break wind.
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Bubbles ... we've got to have bubbles.
I'll drop my strides, dip my backside in and break wind.
That is precisely one of the reasons I don't go in swimming pools.........
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I'm sure that somebody could craft a few venturi nozzles for that purpose
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a shower facility added on too, to wash down before entry, as on sunday I was humming :)
a prison hose down before lice powder hits...
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I'm sure that somebody could craft a few venturi nozzles for that purpose
Actually, as the temperature won't be that high, it's an application were printing one would be viable.
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I didn't go into too much detail in my first post as I wanted imput from others.
We had thought of an M67 heater dropped into a 205 drum with the water being pumped from the tub into the 205, hot water overflowing (through a pipe) back to the tub,
this would get it up to temp quite quickly, but is not a good idea for constant heat.
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All this talk of straw bale building .... if only we knew an expert in the field (pun intended along with sarcasm!)
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All this talk of straw bale building .... if only we knew an expert in the field (pun intended along with sarcasm!)
That was the idea.
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I didn't go into too much detail in my first post as I wanted imput from others.
We had thought of an M67 heater dropped into a 205 drum with the water being pumped from the tub into the 205, hot water overflowing (through a pipe) back to the tub,
this would get it up to temp quite quickly, but is not a good idea for constant heat.
So it's boiled womble next year then?
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All this talk of straw bale building .... if only we knew an expert in the field (pun intended along with sarcasm!)
That was the idea.
I must have missed that conversation at the BBB.
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I didn't go into too much detail in my first post as I wanted imput from others.
We had thought of an M67 heater dropped into a 205 drum with the water being pumped from the tub into the 205, hot water overflowing (through a pipe) back to the tub,
this would get it up to temp quite quickly, but is not a good idea for constant heat.
So it's boiled womble next year then?
Ummmmm, I knew there was a catch to this.
Get the Womble to oversee the design and build of a bespoke Womble slow cooker.
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Ha ha ha. Half a dozen drunk blokes, asleep in the tub, as the water reaches cooking temperatures around them.
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m67's on ebay ATM for £50. i already have 1 and 1/2 debating whether to get another one. i worked out they produce around 3 kw into a insulated tank so not one is not really enough into a large area of open water.
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Ha ha ha. Half a dozen drunk blokes, asleep in the tub, as the water reaches cooking temperatures around them.
will appoint a life guard, anybody?
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Ha ha ha. Half a dozen drunk blokes, asleep in the tub, as the water reaches cooking temperatures around them.
will appoint a life guard, anybody?
12 months to find someone who doesn't think letting them boil and filming it is hilarious.........
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Ha ha ha. Half a dozen drunk blokes, asleep in the tub, as the water reaches cooking temperatures around them.
Just throw in some vegetables and turn down to simmer for a few hours.
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I heat my tub with the lister. It is loaded at 2kW with the genny and has an exhaust HE. It takes about 12 hours tto get 1200L of water to 40c. Some tubs are heated with a woodburner in the tub! Always fancied one of those.
If a genny could be rigged up to the lister that could run an inline imersion heater and load it up. When hot it could run the pump.
Curtain sides from a lorry might make a liner?
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M67 heaters for £25 + £25 p&p
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M67-IMMERSION-HEATER-MILITARY-BUFFING-BILLY-SALAMANDER-BIO-WASTE-VEG-OIL-/151329022869
He says he has 19 of them. Don't suppose anyone is travelling Spilsby (up near Skegness) to Southampton any time? If I got there in good time on the Friday we'd stand a reasonable chance of getting the pool built and up to temp for Saturday. I have a suitable pump for the circulation too.
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For this one I think we need to make an early start on Friday.
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For this one I think we need to make an early start on Friday.
Agreed!
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Looking good with a 360 day lead time.
A project manager is needed, tho:
PRINCE2 champ.
Six sigma black belt ninja.
Moobs look OK in a mankini.
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@ dickjotec I have ya stuff here chap... plus still have the pump if your interested.
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I thought that we should start building before the weekend, Thursday maybe?
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@ dickjotec I have ya stuff here chap... plus still have the pump if your interested.
Thanks RM. Pm sent
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if it's built with straw bails around the outside, and kind of circular, a ratchet strap around the outside would be enough to stop the walls pushing out
do straw bails cost much ?
big ones around the outside and then those smaller ones inside up against them would make nice seats
maybe pour a bag of salt into it too, it'll kill the bugs which float of chunder when he gets in ?
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I thought that we should start building before the weekend, Thursday maybe?
I like your thinking.
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Obviously starting early on such a mission really is down to Chug and Lynda since it's their field and event. But then it was Lynda that requested the hot tub, so Chug may just have to roll with it to keep the lady in the manner to which she is accustomed ;)
So for the surrounding structure are we proposing bales on end in a circle supported by loading straps? A circle will be hard to form in a membrane but I do quite like the loading strap idea.
I suspect a square will be easier to implement, but I don't know what forces bales can take. If only we had an expert :)
We'd also likely need some padding between the membrane and the ground, as a couple of tonnes of water pushing down onto a stone may puncture a membrane. Any suggestions? More straw perhaps?
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Obviously starting early on such a mission really is down to Chug and Lynda since it's their field and event. But then it was Lynda that requested the hot tub, so Chug may just have to roll with it to keep the lady in the manner to which she is accustomed ;)
So for the surrounding structure are we proposing bales on end in a circle supported by loading straps? A circle will be hard to form in a membrane but I do quite like the loading strap idea.
I suspect a square will be easier to implement, but I don't know what forces bales can take. If only we had an expert :)
We'd also likely need some padding between the membrane and the ground, as a couple of tonnes of water pushing down onto a stone may puncture a membrane. Any suggestions? More straw perhaps?
King span insulation ?
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That'd cost more than the rest of the project ;)
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We'd also likely need some padding between the membrane and the ground, as a couple of tonnes of water pushing down onto a stone may puncture a membrane. Any suggestions? More straw perhaps?
Old carpet, turned spongy side up.
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I've bitten the bullet and bought one of the M67 heaters. Keef I need to call in that 205l clamp top favour please :)
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We're thinking of longer event next year as it's the 10th BBB and a possible move to 31st july/1st /2nd august as it's Lynda's 60th B/day!
And the only thing straw isn't good for is dealing with is water, so no straw bales.
I was thinking doing similar to our pentrough (Flume that delivers water to the wheel) at the watermill, it's an old packing case that has been fibreglassed to make it watertight.
I'm also gonna check out the scrapyard to see if anything grabs my eye, a cattle/horse round metal hay feeder or similar round metal vessel is what I'm thinking.
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see if you can find a aircraft engine cowl like kevin mcloud used in his thing.
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Is the field on a water meter Chug? Don't want it to cost a fortune in water to fill either.
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You could put out feelers for a free hot tub. They do exist I was talking to someone recently who had been offered one.
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Reading the M67 documentation, it was designed for 32 US Gallon drums, or 120l, which must be why people report a cold zone at the bottom of a 205l drum.
They are 35,000 BTU for smokeless operation up to 132,000 BTU with smoke. Is that enough for a reasonable sized hot tub? A quick google has people suggesting 250 - 400 BTU for hot tubs, but they want immediate heat rather than 1.5 hours of setup.
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I think that chopped down IBCs pump fed from a 205 with an M67 is ideal, they're cheap or free when the tops are damaged and you could link them if you wanted a larger tubbing area.
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if you dig a round hole, you could line it and use that ?
the ground would work pretty well to insulate it (most of the time)
then you'd only need a small wall around it to make it a bit tidier / stop people falling into it... something about 1foot high would do ?
or dig a hole, and use rammed earth (I think that's what it's called? - tyres filled with soil) around the outside to lift it up a bit ?
with a stand to hold it in the right position, a M67 heater could go right in the middle, so nu pumps etc.. would be needed ?
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Alan, I did think of rammed tyres coz we use em in some of our straw builds, a possibility if nothing else better comes along, or gets suggested, but yeah a hole in the ground could work too.
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A hole in the ground would we have to fill it in after and who would we bury in it
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what kind of size are you thinking of chug ?
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A hole in the ground would we have to fill it in after and who would we bury in it
I'll say it before someone else does.
A Womble.
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with a stand to hold it in the right position, a M67 heater could go right in the middle, so nu pumps etc.. would be needed ?
Um, I can see that getting very hot and burning someone if they touch it, better left as a remote heater I think.
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yes we are on a water meter and as for size, I dunno, maybe for 4 - 6 people?
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A hole in the ground would we have to fill it in after and who would we bury in it
I'll say it before someone else does.
A Womble.
The thought never crossed my mind but now you mention it.
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How about a hole for the foot area, you sit on the edge of the hole, and then sandbags for the back rest and extra level above ground?
I for one am not up for digging a massive hole, they take way too much effort for even a little one :)
Ton builder bag of sand is £40, sandbags are about 20kg per bag so 50 white-woven polypropylene sandbags £20. Could order more and fill some extra bags with soil if we don't think we'd have enough with sand alone?
Or, alternatively, if enough is dug out then just polypropylene bags filled with the soil for the surrounding wall?
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How about pallets cabled tied together with big ties and some rebar to fix. Drape with carpet before lining? Better if boulle pallets can be used.
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I have an 8000litre plastic water tank I bought on ebay but don't need any more... it's about 7 foot diameter.. (a bit wider than a transit van)
I don't know what temp the plastic is good for, but it should be ok for hot tub temps, especially if we put some sand/support/whatever around the out side ?
only problem is, I won't have room to store it till next year... it's ok where it is for the next couple of months but then I'll need it shifted
I can borrow a trailer if we can relay it down to chug ?
even better, I could cut it down to size a bit first, so it's easier to transport ?
the top has a port hole thingie and a crack in it... but if it was fibreglass'd up it could always make two hot tubs
or... one hot tub and one storage tank, so the water could be pumped out overnight to keep it warm or whatever ?
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How about a hole for the foot area, you sit on the edge of the hole, and then sandbags for the back rest and extra level above ground?
I for one am not up for digging a massive hole, they take way too much effort for even a little one :)
Ton builder bag of sand is £40, sandbags are about 20kg per bag so 50 white-woven polypropylene sandbags £20. Could order more and fill some extra bags with soil if we don't think we'd have enough with sand alone?
Or, alternatively, if enough is dug out then just polypropylene bags filled with the soil for the surrounding wall?
we have at least one member who could produce a large hole very quickly. about 6000 metres a second or so i think.......... nobody will notice,used to large explosions around there anyway.
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we have at least one member who could produce a large hole very quickly. about 6000 metres a second or so i think.......... nobody will notice,used to large explosions around there anyway.
;D ;D ;D
You're a bad man
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The missus has bought a 1000l paddling pool for the kids (£15 in a sale) so I'll have a go at heating and filtering that for some idea of warm up times and pumping arrangement.
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I have an 8000litre plastic water tank I bought on ebay but don't need any more... it's about 7 foot diameter.. (a bit wider than a transit van)
I don't know what temp the plastic is good for, but it should be ok for hot tub temps, especially if we put some sand/support/whatever around the out side ?
only problem is, I won't have room to store it till next year... it's ok where it is for the next couple of months but then I'll need it shifted
I can borrow a trailer if we can relay it down to chug ?
even better, I could cut it down to size a bit first, so it's easier to transport ?
the top has a port hole thingie and a crack in it... but if it was fibreglass'd up it could always make two hot tubs
or... one hot tub and one storage tank, so the water could be pumped out overnight to keep it warm or whatever ?
Is it round Alan, got a picture or name to google?
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How about a hole for the foot area, you sit on the edge of the hole, and then sandbags for the back rest and extra level above ground?
I for one am not up for digging a massive hole, they take way too much effort for even a little one :)
Ton builder bag of sand is £40, sandbags are about 20kg per bag so 50 white-woven polypropylene sandbags £20. Could order more and fill some extra bags with soil if we don't think we'd have enough with sand alone?
Or, alternatively, if enough is dug out then just polypropylene bags filled with the soil for the surrounding wall?
No worries I'm great at digging, but good idea with the sandbags, I was thinking rammed earth walls, I've done straight ones before but was puzzlin over getting them round.
Also, I've got a cast iron heat exchanger that could go in, or over a burner
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If I can get it arranged and the timing is right I may be able to bring 2600L of water in IBS's.
That would help fill it quicker (and cheaper).
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Is it round Alan, got a picture or name to google?
yeah round, I found the link to ebay from when I bought it but it's too old so not working
I'll snap a few pictures tomorrow and post them up here
it's white, about 7toot diameter, has 2 ports on the bottom for connections (can be used, or blanked) erm... that's about all I cank think of... photos tomorrow will explain it all :-)
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Mark, nice thought matey but water is not a problem.
Alan, sounds like it might do the trick, how tall, or deep is it?
If its deep enough, I'm thinking dig hole to half bury it, use soil from hole to bank up around it.
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I have not read the whole thread in one go (and i forget stuff) but if you set it into the ground, wont the wet earth just sap away the heat as quick as it goes in?
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Mark, nice thought matey but water is not a problem.
Alan, sounds like it might do the trick, how tall, or deep is it?
If its deep enough, I'm thinking dig hole to half bury it, use soil from hole to bank up around it.
about 7 foot !
photos coming soon :-)
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I have not read the whole thread in one go (and i forget stuff) but if you set it into the ground, wont the wet earth just sap away the heat as quick as it goes in?
you could wrap the whole thing in astrofoil before it goes in the hole, plus i suspect you lose more heat from the surface than to the ground anyway.
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M67 arrived today, looks to be all in working order. Looking forward to first firing :)
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M67 arrived today, looks to be all in working order. Looking forward to first firing :)
as a m67 owner there are a few tips to get it working without blowing your head off. dont use petrol. my runs quite happily on heating oil of red diesel. you do have to get the flue hot first to stop it burning back. i leave mine for longer than you think before opening the tap. i have mine well tamed and it is living in the coach as a space heater at the moment. have fun.
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How about a LWB Land Rover rear body. Line with old carpet and DPM plastic or just line with glass fibre.
Built in seats.
Space under wheel boxes for pumps etc
Won't corrode
Gets another Land Rover off the road
Could be fitted with a canvas roof or hard top if you want to be posh.
Could be insulated underneath if required
Leave on half the chassis and rear axle and it could be towed around ... wouldn't look amiss being towed behind one of the "Winnebago's" seen at the BBB.
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Great have you got one will pick it up tomorrow ha ha ha
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M67 arrived today, looks to be all in working order. Looking forward to first firing :)
Hope you are going to experiment with bio and veg as a fuel, it would seem wrong to be at a BBB and heat with red diesel.
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M67 arrived today, looks to be all in working order. Looking forward to first firing :)
Hope you are going to experiment with bio and veg as a fuel, it would seem wrong to be at a BBB and heat with red diesel.
i have run mine on 70% veg oil ok. bit more difficult to start but fine once it is hot. i will try it on bio when i have some, but want to keep the bio for the van. i can get red or heating oil around here easily enough and every litre of bio in the heater is a litre less on the road. i see the bio as being worth 1.38 a ltr and the red being 79p.
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How much fuel do they use? (Getting interested in getting one now!)
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(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub05.jpg)
(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub10.jpg)
(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub12.jpg)
I think the girls are extra.
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Yes last picture looks great now we're getting some where I think cooking thrown in as well
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How much fuel do they use? (Getting interested in getting one now!)
will measure it when i next light it. the coach is 85 degrees most of the day and 70 at night so haven't lit it for a while. its not a lot, i have been lighting it for a couple of hours a day and 5 ltrs lasts around a week. will do some more scienific measurments and let you now. they do work ok as a space heater. i lined the side with insulative fire brick and ally tape so most of the heat comes out of the top rather than the sides. don't know how long the thing will last but i have another one anyway. it will work on wood as well.
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It says in the manual that you can use them as space heaters, so not exclusively designed to be in water.
Steve at the BBB said he got his nice and toasty hot out of water to burn out the accumulated crap from trying to run in on glycerol.
Have you tried yours on veg, or veg thinned with something?
I assume it will run well on bio.
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tried it on veg mixed with 25% red. works ok. i suspect after a while the welds may crack if you get them too hot. didnt notice the bit in the manual saying you could use them as space heaters. thats good to know.
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I thought I already posted this but it looks like it didn't work...
link to photos of tank...
http://imgur.com/a/lvJbv
it's about 8 inches higher than me, so about 7 foot tall (but more in the centre)
and it was a bit wider than the transit van that towed the trailer it was on... so about 7 foot diameter too
that makes the circumference a bit over 21feet... so 7 people would have about 3 foot of space each
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You'd get 11 peeps in there easily.
Jiggly saw it down to 30" and you could sit in it comfortably with a volume of water at 2100ltr.
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Get 50 peeps in with Hydrofluoric :o
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Get 50 peeps in with Hydrofluoric :o
50? Nah loads more than that but don't get splashed as you throw'm in.
May a suggest we lob the Womble in first.
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(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub05.jpg)
(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub10.jpg)
(http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dutchtub12.jpg)
I think the girls are extra.
Looks great but no offence when it comes to hairy smelly oily blokes a bit more personal space might be required ;)
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Get 50 peeps in with Hydrofluoric :o
50? Nah loads more than that but don't get splashed as you throw'm in.
May a suggest we lob the Womble in first.
He's picking on me again.
These OAP's are nasty you know.
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What do you expect, you stole 20ltr of oil of me, a poor ragged arse old pensioner, how could you.
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Looks great but no offence when it comes to hairy smelly oily blokes a bit more personal space might be required ;)
I thought the idea was to build this for Lynda, not for hairy smelly oily blokes.
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Yeah we dunno ifn she will let anyone else in it yet!
That looks good Alan, cut down it could fit the bill, how thick is the plastic, would it flex much with weight of water and people leaning against it? I expect we will need to reinforce the top somehow.
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I thought I already posted this but it looks like it didn't work...
link to photos of tank...
http://imgur.com/a/lvJbv
it's about 8 inches higher than me, so about 7 foot tall (but more in the centre)
and it was a bit wider than the transit van that towed the trailer it was on... so about 7 foot diameter too
that makes the circumference a bit over 21feet... so 7 people would have about 3 foot of space each
are you going to take the tripe out first?
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Yeah we dunno ifn she will let anyone else in it yet!
That looks good Alan, cut down it could fit the bill, how thick is the plastic, would it flex much with weight of water and people leaning against it? I expect we will need to reinforce the top somehow.
I think it's about 5mm thick, but then is has plastic bands around it which are about 10mm thick
the weight of the water should hold it pretty rigid and in shape... but it might be best to add something around the sides too
maybe burry the first foot or so ?
the bottom of the tank part is about 6 inches off the floor, and then there's a honeycomb of plastic under it to support the weight
I think it's slightly conical on the bottom for the taps... but can't quite see in properly so not 100% on that
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Looks great but no offence when it comes to hairy smelly oily blokes a bit more personal space might be required ;)
I thought the idea was to build this for Lynda, not for hairy smelly oily blokes.
We've got to try it out though right? :)
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Looks great but no offence when it comes to hairy smelly oily blokes a bit more personal space might be required ;)
I thought the idea was to build this for Lynda, not for hairy smelly oily blokes.
We've got to try it out though right? :)
To leave Lynda an oil slick in which to bathe?
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Yeah we dunno ifn she will let anyone else in it yet!
I must be a special case then 'cause Lynda specifically told me to bring Buggie Smugglers next year but then I am a handsome git.
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Lynda thinks it looks pretty good in the pics, so I guess we need to get it down here then and see what its like in the flesh.
Where is it Alan?
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I had our pool up to 42C today (not intentionally, the temp sensors for the Arduino controller have not turned up yet so it is a bit of a manual measurement process at the moment), all on biodiesel.
It was quite surreal and very pleasant laying back in the pool with steam rising around me and drizzle falling whilst holding an ice cold beer.
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I had our pool up to 42C today (not intentionally, the temp sensors for the Arduino controller have not turned up yet so it is a bit of a manual measurement process at the moment), all on biodiesel.
It was quite surreal and very pleasant laying back in the pool with steam rising around me and drizzle falling whilst holding an ice cold beer.
like your style dude, awesome 8)
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I thought this was going to be a temporary lash up just for the weekend, but it's looking more like a permanent thing.
I bettor bring my mankini every year then.
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yeah a permanent lash up!
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Where is it Alan?
with me in Sunderland.... how quick do you want it ?
give me a while and I might be able to bring it down ?
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We need it by July 2015!
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We need it by July 2015!
June 2015 ... we need time for the water to heat up.
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Can someone make this a sticky please.
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I thought this was going to be a temporary lash up just for the weekend, but it's looking more like a permanent thing.
I bettor bring my mankini every year then.
YOU in a mankini? I'll bring a sick bag then.
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He'll trebuchet that sickbag right back at you.
Stickyness applied :)
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Mankinis are so last year.......
http://news.distractify.com/culture/arts/an-ode-to-the-asymmetrical-man-thong-the-bewildering-new-trend-of-the-summer/
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That doesn't look safe for welding in.
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That doesn't look safe for welding in.
Not enough UV protection, ya reckon?
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M67 arrived today, looks to be all in working order. Looking forward to first firing :)
Hope you are going to experiment with bio and veg as a fuel, it would seem wrong to be at a BBB and heat with red diesel.
i have run mine on 70% veg oil ok. bit more difficult to start but fine once it is hot. i will try it on bio when i have some, but want to keep the bio for the van. i can get red or heating oil around here easily enough and every litre of bio in the heater is a litre less on the road. i see the bio as being worth 1.38 a ltr and the red being 79p.
Here's Stephen's one at BBB 2013 running on bio to clean up a drum with some soapy water:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1006158_10151780074733169_1315618992_n.jpg)
One tub of 25l of bio should run it for a day or so, we can always ask for hot-tub fuel donations.
We did try running it on glyc but with less success.
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Was at lynda and chugs last week
the subject came up
She is expecting it to be available to hold at least 10-15 farty old biomakers but far fewer ladies
she is also expecting it to be avilable for a weeks use including 2 week ends cus thats how long the BB is to be this its tenth year.
I have refrained from comenting untill now and only comented to make you aware of the extent of the chalenge she has laid down
If I can be of any help let me know but as to how I can help I have no idea .
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if it's still wanted, I've still got the tank, and a freezer door big enough to stand it on (insulated base)
it'll fit on my trailer... trailer just needs a bit of welding
if it's still good... when do you need it chug ? I can get it ready and bring it down at pretty short notice :-)
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If I can be of any help let me know but as to how I can help I have no idea .
It would be an immense help if you just keep well out of every bodies way.
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Yes we would still like it please Alan,
no real rush but before june really, its a bit too big for a relay though
I've been trying to get on here for an hour I thought server was down, sent Tony a text.
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Do we have a date for this years bash?
I'm hoping to make this one.
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Yay, a nine day BBB :) :) :)
I reckon we will come for the whole lot (providing it's in school holidays) and maybe take the opportunity to pop into London on the train on a couple of days and show Alicia some of the sights.
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im still trying to work out why a few women would want to sit in a bath with all of you?
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Yes we would still like it please Alan,
no real rush but before june really, its a bit too big for a relay though
I've been trying to get on here for an hour I thought server was down, sent Tony a text.
The server locked up, that's a first. And my phone crashed. It has been a bad tech day!
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not exactly sure on dates yet but end of july beginnnnnnnnnnng of august ish, I aint even got a diary yet!
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I will just bring me bathing costume.
I like the way the unbated hook was swalowed .
I can now just partake of everyone elses eforts with a totaly clear concience .
Now wheres me ruber duck and I will have to find me water wings .
Must remember to eat pleanty of baked beans for a few day beforehand .
As to dates Chug aint got a clue but Linda has a time firmly peciled in
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I'll bring a stiff brush and washing up liquid
chug already has a hose pipe
now all we need are hazmat suits and a team of volunteers to scrub Chunder down before he gets in
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Since proper pools have those showers to rinse with before you get in maybe we should? Some ideas:
(http://www.cambridge.ca/sectionImages/1_Decontamination_sm.jpg)
(http://download.101com.com/wa-mcv/ohs/images/july6/GEN350A2.jpg)
(http://www.markgibsonphoto.com/images/N086W13W.JPG)
(http://connection.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2012/03/28/cv0328-637_t670.jpg?b3f6a5d7692ccc373d56e40cf708e3fa67d9af9d)
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i used to specialise in nuclear, biological and chemical detection and decontamination if its any help...
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i used to specialise in nuclear, biological and chemical detection and decontamination if its any help...
sounds like you're in charge of "chunderwash 2015" then
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oh.
joy.
:-\
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Make sure your jabs are up to date.
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Wouldn't it be better just to get him his own 45 gallon drum of water, and light a fire under it?
Someone could bring a block and tackle, we could make an A frame, and lower him into it.
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Wouldn't it be better just to get him his own 45 gallon drum of water, and light a fire under it?
Why bother filling it with water? :P
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Wouldn't it be better just to get him his own 45 gallon drum of water, and light a fire under it?
Why bother filling it with water? :P
Good point. Why bother with the drum at all? Just suspend him over a good roaring fire.........
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Good point. Why bother with the drum at all? Just suspend him over a good roaring fire.........
WHAT??????? and waste all that fat just think how many litre he would make.
Render the old sod down.
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With talk of roasting Chunder over an open fire, for a minuet I thought the Womble had got away with it,
but then I realized you lot are lulling me into a false sense of security.
I know I've not been very active on here of late, but if I'm aloud I'll be be at the 10th bash.
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MARK of course your atendance is mandatory onece Jamesrl claps eyes on you his dementure and confusion will clear .
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MARK of course your atendance is mandatory onece Jamesrl claps eyes on you his dementure and confusion will clear .
Mark who?
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Oh dear, Jim's dementure really is getting bad.
Maybe this will help clear out the old grey matter.
Flowery green dress and lipstick.
Mark who indeed.
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Isn't there a Christmas song ... Chunder's roasting on an open fire,
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Mark who.
Are you related to the Dr?
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Good project with loads of imaginative ideas mooted. It behoves us to get real if it is to be a success though, so for starters consider the heat input requirement:
2000 kg of water heated from 10 deg C to 30 deg C; delta t = 20
Specific heat of water (from memory) = 4.2 kJ/kg/deg
Heat input = 2000x20x2.4 = 96,000 kJ
My home heating system puts out roughly 40kW of hot gas to a heat exchanger measured at 30% efficiency, so 12kW goes into the water. The burn-time needed would be 96,000/12 = 8,000 sec or 2hr 13 min
To this one should add a bit to account for heat loss from the pool and more than a bit to allow for re-loading the glyc burner a few times. All in all, I reckon half a day should do it.
Perhaps other contending technolgies might try a similar calc (in BTUs if you want to be awkward :-)
David
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That lot are going to prove Lynda right. "Gatherd together a terific amount of intelect and skill but geting them to work together for a sustained amount of time ???? ."
My coment was "I would sooner try to herd cats "
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Can't see a problem meself, Chug puts a plan together, we arrive, gather over a tea/coffee and discuss how we should go about arranging a meeting to decide when to have a meeting to consider Chug's plan.
There's no point in having a meeting 'til all participants have arrived, that might happen by Sunday morning.
By the time the meetings have taken place, admin and management appointed, risk assessments and safe systems have been ironed out, everyone supplied with the correct PPE I reckon it'll be ready for next year.
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Or we could just fling it together out out whatever is to hand, with health and safety being observed to the usual level.
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... with health and safety being observed to the usual level.
I propose Arash is in charge of health and safety.
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Second that. I propose we have a St Johns Ambulance, and an Air Ambulance on site, with some trauma specialists on board.
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You'll definitely need trauma specialist if Chunder gets his kit off and Post Traumatic Stress Councillors to boot.
Mind you several jugs of Hifly's anesthetic might ease the shock.
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Knightly, any chance of a few photos of the tank, so we have some idea of what we have to work with.
Are we still thinking of heating it via an M67 sat in a 205 drum, with water being pumped from the tub into the drum and then gravity fed back to the tub.
Whats all this talk of the safety elf, he'll only stop you putting me and Chunder in before adding the vegetables.
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not sure what the plan is yet, m67 or I have that trianco oil burner/boiler, or WHY?
tank is this http://imgur.com/a/lvJbv
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Perhaps the "printers" could print Lynda a floating drinks tray.
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If you want lots of bubbles, jacuzzi style, the you need a decent sized pump and the venturi nozzles to suck air into the water flow.
For my pool I have a 300lpm two speed pump (300lpm is top speed) pumping through 1.5" hose to three venturi nozzles.
That fills the surface of a 12' diameter pool with bubbles.
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I thought I'd posted pics already... but I guess not... I'll take some tomorrow :-)
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You had, but I'd missed them.
Chug has posted up a link.
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I could ask The Girl to breath on it.
Should take about 2 minutes to get up to temperature. :o
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OK chaps, after much deliberation and consultation, here's my plan to contribute to the hot tub heating.
I have an M67 and a steel 205l drum (thanks keef), a coil of copper to act as a heat exchanger, a nice, isolated magnetically coupled pump and garden hose to get water to and from the hot tub. So we can isolate the pool water from the heated M67 water (and not have to worry about maintaining water level in the M67 if water was to be pumped in and out).
What we will need is some form of footer filter for the hose.
I've got some chlorine tablets and chlorine strips if we want to make sure the pool water is hygienic.
What about the build of the hot tub itself? Chug's mighty plastic fantastic?
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just realised I still need to post photos of the tank !
it's behind a stripped camper van, which is behind a knackered jag, which is behind a knackered sprinter....
but I'll get it out next week and post some pictures up :-)
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I've just run up the pump and checked fittings with hose and copper coil, it all plumbs together a treat :)
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I've just run up the pump and checked fittings with hose and copper coil, it all plumbs together a treat :)
You're gonna need some serious coil and heat input to exceed heat loss to the ground and atmosphere.
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Maybe someone else with another M67?
They're about 65000 BTUs, though can peak at more than double that at the expense of chuffing and soot.
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I was thinking about this today, we need to get the ball rolling as there's not much time left.
Can the M67 be cleaned so no heat exchanger is needed, would solve a lot of problems.
To maintain level in the M67 drum you just pump water into the drum and run the outlet as an overflow.
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What do you mean by outlet? It would overflow, for sure :) I considered adding a port to the side but then you need decent plastic waste plumbing for the return, and a suitable height differential - it would mean an elevated platform for the M67 and drum, which doesn't sound too safe.
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I heat my tub from a 205L tank, heated by either the Lister or a boiler, using a finned heat exchanger from a CH boiler. The HE is under a wooden duck board, held down with some slab cut to shape. This has worked well for a number of years. It raises the temp by about 1 degree an hour. the heat source has to run for less than an hour a day. Pumps etc are controlled from PIDs. Initial heat of the year is boosted with a heater from one of the inflatable tubs I got second hand run from the lister, this gets it up to temp in a day. We run at 37c with the 205 never over 60c, a bigger differential would, of course heat it quicker.
If you go for a tank I would suggest placing your tub on some polystyrene and lagging with bales.
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Well the copper coil I have is 12mm, I'm not sure how long (I'll have to check, either 5m or 10m) so should heat water nicely enough, the question is flow rate through it and the garden hose (and loss to atmosphere from the hose). The 205 I'm sure we can get up to 60-80C though with kids around it's probably better to keep it on the lower end, certainly when we start we can bump the temp right up to get things going.
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My tub, and the house and cabin, is fed through 15mm barrier pipe admittedly underground, and there is very little loss. Circulation with a CH pump and a big height difference.
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Just checked and the coil I've got is 10m, it's only the flow that is a worry. Perhaps we need pipe insulation for the hose?
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Depends on how far the 205 is from the tub. I would not worry if it is up to 15M. The water is not in the pipe long enough to loose much heat to air. I assume a cCH pump is planned for the circulation?
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This fits hose pipe perfectly
http://m.rs-online.com/h5/mobile/uk/catalog?url=%2Fweb%2Fp%2Fcentrifugal-pumps%2F0266979%2F
(I didn't pay that for it!)
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Love it ...... Tony, the man with a pump for every occasion ;)
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It's a pleasure, and a curse ;)
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everything's gone to crap here
went to make some phone calls and left a lad moving some stuff around to get the tank out and tidy up a bit in the process... he knocked the forklift into gear as he jumped off it (without putting the hand break on)
forklift drove off and straight into the tank, crushing it against a wall
totally ruined :-(
anyone have any other ideas of a tank ? I'll collect and bring it down to the BBB no problem
feel really crap after everyone's made plans around this tank :-(
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Depends on how far the 205 is from the tub. I would not worry if it is up to 15M.
Can't have it too close or the tub will get a layer of soot on it from the M67 if the wind is the wrong way (particularly when it's running full chatter). I wonder if the wind blows a particular way on average there?
totally ruined :-(
That's a shame but at least no-one got hurt in the incident, could have been a lot lot worse. We'll just have to find another way.
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How about
Cut an IBC down. Cut it into quarters then extend the sides with shuttering or OSB. Line with polythene or buttyl if anyone has some. Might need a frame round the top but should work unless huge.
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Anyone got a Tin Barff?
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knightly, I hope you strung him up, after checking the forklift was OK of course.
Maybe it's back to a circle of straw bales, lined with a tarp, and rope around the outside to keep everything in place.
Quick, easy n cheap.
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I could spare a ratchet strap to go around the outside ?
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I could spare a ratchet strap to go around the outside ?
Don't let the lad off the fork lift near it!
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Don't let the lad off the fork lift near it!
closest he'll get is if I string him up with it !
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I could spare a ratchet strap to go around the outside ?
Don't let the lad off the fork lift near it!
Yes let him near it, but only if it involves roof beam and a chair ;)
I posted too slowly.
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How about buying a scrap car, sabre saw/grind the roof including pillars off, remove the seats and gearstick, line with old carpet and pond liner to give an instant automotively-themed hot-tub? Just don't let anyone open the doors.
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Panel van or caravan and a recip saw! If its transit based chug can use the van parts too.
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Transit's no good, we need something without holes in it.
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I've just caught up with this thread, I've been working like mad whilst its there and been well knackered most nights, I've had an easier day today so I'm just about with it.
shame about the tank Alan, it sounded just right, so dunno what to suggest now, its not the end of the world if it doesn't come together, but lets keep our thinkin hats on and our eyes keen whilst out and about lest we spot something suitable or inspirational. 8)
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I've been on ebay looking for something which would work but can't find much that would fit in :-(
p.s. I've got a full roll of DPM which would work as a liner if we could think of a way to fit it so it wouldn't puncture ?
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How about if we all chip in a fiver and hire a skip for the week :)
Or buy one and sell it afterwards http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skips-/291490637861?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43de322825
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I would definitely be up for that. Great idea.
Or we buy a temporary pool outright for £35? Can't help feeling that with fire, hot and sharp metal about it might not last though.
http://homeshopping.24studio.co.uk/autumn-winter/fun-games/outdoor-fun/pools/1/10ft-pool/5
Or lay an old heating oil tank on it's side and cut one side off (leaving a bit for a rim of angle for support)?
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The pool would be the best bet, when we're finished Chug could use the water for his plants etc.
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Do you think it would take hot water?
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Do you think it would take hot water?
Mmmmm, now there's a thought.
How hot do you think it'll get?
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Do you think it would take hot water?
Mmmmm, now there's a thought.
How hot do you think it'll get?
Are we boiling Womble this year as we didn't manage to incinerate him last year?
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I prefer my womble poached!
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The Womble was pickled last year, umm, well, most years actually.
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I'm not happy, today I've been told that due to being short staffed I can't have any time off work for the BBB.
So I'll only get there Friday evening.
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I'm not happy, today I've been told that due to being short staffed I can't have any time off work for the BBB.
So I'll only get there Friday evening.
So very limited Womble bashing this year, it just aint fair.
What am I going to do for entertainment now.
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Those quick set pools (the ones with the inflatable ring around the top) are rubbish. I had one and it didn't last more than a couple of weeks. Some air leaked out of the ring and that is the only thing that holds up the pool. The next thing was a loud woosh as 3000 litres of chlorinated water rushed off down the garden.
That was with very light use and cold water.
We then got a steel framed 10' X 30" pool. That is 1000 times better. It lasted all last season and we have just put it up again now and it's still perfect.
I have that one heated and last year the water got to 40C one day (faulty thermostat).
You can buy them from Amazon for £90 or therabouts for the 10' one.
They also do 12', 15' and 18' diameters and depths up to 48"
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today I've been told that due to being short staffed I can't have any time off
You mean they employ people even smaller than you?
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I'm not happy, today I've been told that due to being short staffed I can't have any time off work for the BBB.
So I'll only get there Friday evening.
So very limited Womble bashing this year, it just aint fair.
What am I going to do for entertainment now.
I may only get there Friday evening but I'll be staying until Sunday.
So you still have the normal annual Womble bashing opportunity, but sadly (for you) not an extended one.
However I do understand that you don't have that many annual Womble bashing opportunity's left do you, so you need to make the most of the Womble bashing season while you can.
Anyway three days is enough time to play out what ever it is your evil twisted mind can come up with, or you would have thought so anyway, but looking back over the last few years your mind and mouth have written checks that the body just can't cash.
Now repeat after me, I'm old and week, my knees are bad.................................
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It's not big or clever to mock the old and infirmed, at least I don't work at a place that only employs sub 5 footers (short staffed) giddit?
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It's not big or clever to mock the old and infirmed, at least I don't work at a place that only employs sub 5 footers (short staffed) giddit?
I don't claim to be big or clever, that would be stupid, only the short get employed at my place.
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Those quick set pools (the ones with the inflatable ring around the top) are rubbish. I had one and it didn't last more than a couple of weeks. Some air leaked out of the ring and that is the only thing that holds up the pool. The next thing was a loud woosh as 3000 litres of chlorinated water rushed off down the garden.
That was with very light use and cold water.
We had one and that lasted the summer with no special care, we think the fox got it in the end (obviously chewed by something).
The skip idea I was thinking about, it would have pretty bad heat loss wouldn't it?
So what is the plan, are we going to revert to digging a hole?
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Depending on depth I would have thought that some shuttering ply and 4x2 with ratchet straps to support would be a fast and cheap way to go. Add some styrene or kingspan and it would be well insulated. Line with polythene or butyl.
At two for deep only two sheets are needed for 8x4.
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Bump for further inspiration?
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Oh come on sort yourselves out I had my anual bath, of course in setled filterd wvo . Yesterday in anticipation . And now I see you have .
Like all commitys run out of ideas and reached an impass right at the last moment as the good Lady linda said to me poor demented lady that she may be.
" With all the oversized brains of you lot in atendance and your pre proven abilitys to make fings work she belives she is not asking to mutch "
Dont prove her wrong . If you lot dont get this right
I can see her enthusiasm for the BBB waining after all in ten years SHE HAS NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING .
whist puting up with a load of nutters decending on HER field every year with very good grace .
At least I would Expect a 3 foot deep square hole in the ground lined fistly with newspaper and old capet to enshure no punctures
then lined with visquen Blue preferably the thicker the beter. The corners are dead easy to fold .
Good greif use your heads make a decision and get on wiv it .
I will now but out as I was told my help was not requierd on this project .
But to my MIND THE SELF ELECTED COMMITY SEEMS TO BE CHIKENING OUT AT THE FIRST OPORTUNITY.
SO GET A GRIP.
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Right. I have the M67/drum/heat exchanger/pipe/pump heating solution and that is coming with me regardless, and if no-one has any other construction solution, I'll be bringing a pick axe and a spade and everyone will be taking turns at the backbreaking work of hole excavation. Don't want to be letting Lynda down!
Chug do you have pallets on site that we can cut in half, stand on end and loading strap together to avoid digging too deep?
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Those quick set pools (the ones with the inflatable ring around the top) are rubbish. I had one and it didn't last more than a couple of weeks. Some air leaked out of the ring and that is the only thing that holds up the pool. The next thing was a loud woosh as 3000 litres of chlorinated water rushed off down the garden.
That was with very light use and cold water.
We then got a steel framed 10' X 30" pool. That is 1000 times better. It lasted all last season and we have just put it up again now and it's still perfect.
I have that one heated and last year the water got to 40C one day (faulty thermostat).
You can buy them from Amazon for £90 or therabouts for the 10' one.
They also do 12', 15' and 18' diameters and depths up to 48"
do you mean one like this ?
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/7S8AAOSwQJhUiuz8/$_57.JPG)
that's 12ft by 30inches
(looks to me like the people are photoshopped in to make the pool look bigger than it really is ?)
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£90 from here
http://www.splashandrelax.co.uk/products/Swimming+Pools/Metal+Frame+Round+Pools/Intex+Metal+Frame+Pool+10ft+x+30%22+-+28202/2420769071
I'm in for a tenner if we can find 8 others to contribute.
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anyone going to be there near the start, and we can have it posted to you (delivery friday) PM me your address and I'll sort it out
:-)
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i don't see any cables going to the pump,if it is a pump. was that photo-shopped in as well?
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I am in for a tenner.
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I will now but out as I was told my help was not requierd on this project .
Who said that?
But to my MIND THE SELF ELECTED COMMITY ...
Bit harsh!
To my knowledge no one's been excluded and all assistance, ideas and now donations are welcome.
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Put me down for a tenner.
Probably benefit from a couple of layers of old carpet underneath.
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I will now but out as I was told my help was not requierd on this project .
Who said that?
Just re-read the thread, I think this was it, though it is pretty funny ;D
If I can be of any help let me know but as to how I can help I have no idea .
It would be an immense help if you just keep well out of every bodies way.
[quote
But to my MIND THE SELF ELECTED COMMITY ...
Bit harsh!
To my knowledge no one's been excluded and all assistance, ideas and now donations are welcome.
Shh, you'll give the game away about the secret hot-tub-avoiding society, how chunder of all people got to hear about it I'll never know, he'll be telling us he knows the secret oily handshake next!
Who's arriving at the BBB when then? I'm coming down either late Wednesday or early Thursday. I've got a list of stuff to bring and it's going to take some time to pack and unpack, I'm beginning to doubt I'll have room for the 3D printer, anyone bringing one we can ad-hoc parts up with?
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Why don't you post it to chug?
If need be I can run it over if it posted to me.
When's the bash start?
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Some thing like this would be ideal.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Curved-corrugated-steel-sheet-/301663066677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c851a35
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You volunteering to transport it? ;D
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You volunteering to transport it? ;D
Will not fit in me van.
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Stick me down for £10
Five more people and it's paid for.
The best thing is it can be left up for Chug and Linda to use for the rest of the summer.
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Tony, the one you linked to is only 10ft, but that's going to be easier to heat and less water for chug's meter.
I have some of the silver bubble wrap, hopefully enough for a single layer around the outside.
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if someone PMs me the address of where to send it, I'll order right now and have it delivered asap
probably too late to send it to chugs house, and not sure if it would be delivered to the field ok ?
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This is their address
Unit 8,
Gatwick Business Park,
Kennel Lane,
Hookwood,
Surrey,
RH6 OAY
Anyone coming up from that area ?
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15 mins from me ... happy to go and pick it up (assuming they don't drop ship from else where), but I'm not planning on getting to the BBB until Saturday morning.
Anyone traversing the Southern section of the M25 on the way to Chugs, prior to that ... I can hold and pass on.
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I'm not getting there until Friday evening, and as I think it'll take a hole day to fill that's a bit late as well.
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Try again Julian!
It's 4.5m3 = 4500ltrs even at 10ltrs /min that's only 7.5 hrs.
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Try again Julian!
It's 4.5m3 = 4500ltrs even at 10ltrs /min that's only 7.5 hrs.
Plus another 4 or 5 hours to heat.
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May get it a little cheaper if it's collected as price includes delivery.
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Needs to be there early, heating will take longer than you think. Could ship to me but car room already limited...
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Oh woke up have we Im in for a tenner no problem mind you it will have to be two white fivers
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and Im shure we could frighten PETE into parting wiv a tenner
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Stick me down for a tenner
I got an 8 x 4 roof rack on the Trooper (available) and a rack on the camper trailer
...but might need that for some home comforts for myself.
In MK at moment but could arrange a collect if not too far
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PS - going to be there from asap on Tuesday
...earlier if the Trooper will go through the gates, need to try out the bullbar
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Two white fivers? This ain't moby dick y'know chunder, you don't have to harpoon them fivers on the high seas!
Or are you likening yourself to the scupperer of The Essex, with "tenfold fury and vengeance" in your aspect? ;)
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It does sound like Pete could be the harbinger of community pool funding, but he's got a tainted record when it comes to attending with working vehicles.
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I'll have you know that I haven't managed to break the Trooper yet.
Mind you there is time yet......
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Just caught up with all this and then told her the plan and Lynda says not to buy a pool.
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Flowers and chocolate it is then.......
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Just caught up with all this and then told her the plan and Lynda says not to buy a pool.
I'm afraid it might be a case of tough titty, looks like she's gonna get one.
I've got a spare tenner under me matress somewhere so count me in.
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but said the idea was to be resourceful and not spend money
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Too late, wormtongue chunder started this train rolling!
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Here is my one...
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Boiler%20and%20thermal%20store/20150621_174931_zpsycyvpujn.jpg)
It is a 10' X 30" bestway. The white pipe going in a funny angle is just temporary while I wait for a few fittings to turn up.
Full to the top it holds about 7500 litres so it's important to make sure it is on a firm and level surface. Mine is on a 20' X 14' steel reinforced concrete pad 4" thick and has 4" of celotex between the pool and the concrete to insulate the warm water from the cold concrete and also make a nice smooth surface to protect the liner.
I will soon be building decking around it to make it blend in a lot more.
This is inside the plant shed,
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Boiler%20and%20thermal%20store/20150621_175116_zpsg2ruzm2m.jpg)
From the left is old oil boiler (running on bio), expanson vessel for the sealed system boiler loop, high flow cartridge filter, multi-port valve to use or isolate the filter, or divert flow to waste, stainless steel heat exchanger and finally a two speed 1.5HP pump (100litres per minute on low speed, 300litres per minute on high)
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It could be said I gave the Commie Comity a kick up the arse I was finking about dig one out and fill wiv visqueen but I can see the scence in a pre made pool now you bugers hace got to work out how to heat it and fit it wiv jets.
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At the risk of being shot down in flames ...... Gota admit, it's not really in the spirit of the BBB to buy a ready made pool is it?
What's wrong with straw bales ratchet strapped and lined with visquith/pond liner?
No digging, easy to find the bits and easy to get rid of afterwards.
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What's wrong with straw bales ratchet strapped and lined with visquith/pond liner?
I would've followed that route too, but straw bales were mooted by Chug earlier above:
And the only thing straw isn't good for is dealing with is water, so no straw bales.
I agree it's not quite the intended spirit to buy a pool, but at least that way something will get done :)
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If it goes ahead stick me down for a tenner.
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I'll do £10 to see Chunder in a mankini in it.
That would be priceless.
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Well we have at least nine people volunteer for funding so that'd do it
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As it rather flies in the face of the original plan and Chug's already commented that Lynda's say's not to buy a pool, it might be politic to just get the OK from them first.
I know the "buying" bit isn't an issue to all who have offered to contribute, but let's make sure everyone's comfortable with it before we go ahead.
I know he's very busy, but I've PMed Chug and if he and Lynda are happy with us doing this, I'm willing to go and buy it and drive it up to Chugs field. Unfortunately I have to work on Tuesday, but I can do it Monday or Wednesday which ever suits Chug and Lynda.
The company sells a sheet to go under the pool for £7.99, but I suspect it's just a lump of blue tarp and not very effective. If this goes ahead, can any one get a piece of old carpet to the field Tuesday or Wednesday?
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Hopefully it can be seen as a group birthday present/thankyou present to Lynda, which we are more than willing to give :)
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Hopefully it can be seen as a group birthday present/thankyou present to Lynda, which we are more than willing to give :)
Mine, and I'm sure everyone elses thoughts exactly.
Heaven knows it only goes a fraction of the way to saying thank you for putting up with us bunch of morons over the years.
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If our brilliant hosts accept the offer/idea and we get a proper pool can we have a diving board as well?
You don't have to build a 10m board, I'll put up with a piddling 5m.
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My scaffold tower won't fit in the car sadly!
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Who needs a diving board when you have tyres and airbags! Hahaha
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Who needs a diving board when you have tyres and airbags! Hahaha
Excellent point :D
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Who needs a diving board when you have tyres and airbags! Hahaha
Ok then but can we test the velocity and trajectory with the occasional Womble, if we can hit the pool 9 times out of 10 after you I'll be first.
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will we get done by the RSPCA for EWF (explosive womble flinging). :P
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will we get done by the RSPCA for EWF (explosive womble flinging). :P
Nah, Wombles only exist in our world, if someone rang the RSPCA and reported Womble abuse they'd send the men in white coats round.
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If you guys do go for an intex or bestway steel framed pool, dont bother with the ground sheet. It is just a round tarp. You could do much better with old carpet, a huge tarp or, if somebody has some, some kingspan/celotex/polystyrene
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If you guys do go for an intex or bestway steel framed pool, dont bother with the ground sheet. It is just a round tarp. You could do much better with old carpet, a huge tarp or, if somebody has some, some kingspan/celotex/polystyrene
I have got the solar cover for mine though. To be fair it is just a round sheet of very heavy duty bubblewrap that floats on the water but it is surprisingly effective at trapping the suns heat in the water during the day
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Number two son is coming to the bash with me to look after his aging farther and has asked me the following questions.
Is there a qualified first aid person on site at all times.
Is there some one to carry out a full risk assessment of the activity's.
And has full thourt been given to the health and safety aspect of the proposed activity's.
Watering for some constructive reply's.
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Number two son is coming to the bash with me to look after his aging farther and has asked me the following questions.
Is there a qualified first aid person on site at all times.
Is there some one to carry out a full risk assessment of the activity's.
And has full thourt been given to the health and safety aspect of the proposed activity's.
Watering for some constructive reply's.
Good thinking ... I probably need to do a risk assessment with regards to transporting this pump. I know they're not cheap ... shall we say 100 quid up front?
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I thought I was nominated the BBB health and safety rep.
Full risk assesment carried out, if it does not involve excessive risk you are not allowed to do it.
Method statements are submitted for all activities friday night while drinking Vince's cider, funniest one, which involves outrageous power tools, operator being the earth return path. This not an exhastive list and I may add more conditions for extra hilarity.
I am the first aider although I was thrown off the course for trying to give annie love bites and blowing in the wrong hole.
Don't forget your 5 point PPE:
Hairy Chest
Boxers
Bottle opener
Braising torch with mapp gas or oxy (needed for searing steaks)
Wellies
For ladies and those that have yet to go through puberty Burt Reynolds style chest wigs will be provided.
See if that satisfies him Richard
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Number two son is coming to the bash with me to look after his aging farther and has asked me the following questions.
Is there a qualified first aid person on site at all times.
Is there some one to carry out a full risk assessment of the activity's.
And has full thourt been given to the health and safety aspect of the proposed activity's.
Watering for some constructive reply's.
Good thinking ... I probably need to do a risk assessment with regards to transporting this pump. I know they're not cheap ... shall we say 100 quid up front?
Thats destructive not constructive.
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I'm a first aider, but as it'll me that will need treatment it may not work that well.
And I'm a full time Womble, not an occasional Womble.
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Who needs a diving board when you have tyres and airbags! Hahaha
Ok then but can we test the velocity and trajectory with the occasional Womble, if we can hit the pool 9 times out of 10 after you I'll be first.
Like it, Womble tossing ... what could possibly go wrong?
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What could possibly go wrong?
Seem to have heard that before.
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This year I'm planning on bringing an RCD to minimise risk from mains gear.
Which is but a drop in the BBB ocean :)
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We will just go with the flow and whatever the scrounge decides.
The local weatherman who is usually quite good says its gonna be a heatwave from wed onwards!
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Thanks Chug.
I've just phoned the company and they won't let me collect it in person for "insurance" reasons. I even offered to stand out side while they brought it out, but the answer was still no, and they won't take cash anyway.
Even if they sent it by courier we wouldn't get it until Tuesday/Wednesday and they won't deliver to the field, they have to have an address.
I have a couple of jobs to do today so won't be able to peruse it further until tomorrow. If anybody can locate one close to me, I'm still happy to buy and deliver it, or if some one can find one local to them and arrange it's delivery that would be great.
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OK, found one on Gumtree in Paulsgrove near Portsmouth, un-opened for £60, but the woman hasn't answered emails and phone calls, so I don't know if it's still available, but I'll keep trying.
Failing that ToysRus sell them for £99.99. I could stop off at the Woking branch, if they have them in stock, and buy one en-route. Would one more person be happy to contribute the additional tenner?
I now have work for both Tuesday and Wednesday, so it will have to be Monday that I take it up to Chugs field ... hope that's OK Chug? If there's no one there I'll have to hide it somewhere on site.
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Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity ?
https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/
I can bring a set (I've had to promise they don't get trashed), something for Friday night maybe ?
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Failing that ToysRus sell them for £99.99. I could stop off at the Woking branch, if they have them in stock, and buy one en-route. Would one more person be happy to contribute the additional tenner?
I'm more than happy to stump up a tenner for the cause Julian.
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Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity ?
https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/
I can bring a set (I've had to promise they don't get trashed), something for Friday night maybe ?
If the cards as funny (not) as the samples on the link don't bother.
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Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity ?
https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/
I can bring a set (I've had to promise they don't get trashed), something for Friday night maybe ?
If the cards as funny (not) as the samples on the link don't bother.
The link doesn't show how funny it can be.
The more sick and twisted the players the better the game is, plenty of rocket fuel will only add to the fun.
So with the usual BBB reprobates we could be in for a good game.
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Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity ?
https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/
I can bring a set (I've had to promise they don't get trashed), something for Friday night maybe ?
If the cards as funny (not) as the samples on the link don't bother.
The link doesn't show how funny it can be.
The more sick and twisted the players the better the game is, plenty of rocket fuel will only add to the fun.
So with the usual BBB reprobates we could be in for a good game.
No kidding, I'm up for some serious bad taste after a few pints!
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Has anyone played Cards Against Humanity ?
https://cardsagainsthumanity.com/
I can bring a set (I've had to promise they don't get trashed), something for Friday night maybe ?
If the cards as funny (not) as the samples on the link don't bother.
The link doesn't show how funny it can be.
The more sick and twisted the players the better the game is, plenty of rocket fuel will only add to the fun.
So with the usual BBB reprobates we could be in for a good game.
No kidding, I'm up for some serious bad taste after a few pints!
I'll bring um along then.
Have you played it before ?
Prudes need not partake.
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OK, found one on Gumtree in Paulsgrove near Portsmouth, un-opened for £60, but the woman hasn't answered emails and phone calls, so I don't know if it's still available, but I'll keep trying.
Just got through, it's sold.
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Julian. Is the £10 ok on the Saturday when you come up or would you like it by PayPal. If so pm me your details and I will forward it on.
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Just got through, it's sold.
Oh, shame, thanks for chasing Tony, I've been out collecting Mono Pumps and just got in, shame it's sold!
So, we're left with the ToysRus version on Monday.
Julian. Is the £10 ok on the Saturday when you come up or would you like it by PayPal. If so pm me your details and I will forward it on.
Cash on Saturday would be best for me, thanks.
If contributors aren't there Saturday, then a PayPal gift will be OK ... it's just that with money in the PayPal account, I'll only go and buy more pumps!
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Sure I'll bring cash.
Anyone got any veg/misfuel/flammables they can bring for the M67? I have 40-45l of red diesel+veg mixed ready to go, will also bring some bio, not sure how long that will last. May have to put a call out on VOD for it.
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Sure I'll bring cash.
Anyone got any veg/misfuel/flammables they can bring for the M67? I have 40-45l of red diesel+veg mixed ready to go, will also bring some bio, not sure how long that will last. May have to put a call out on VOD for it.
I can bring 20 ltrs of both, but I'd like the containers back at the end of the day.
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I can bring 20 ltrs of both, but I'd like the containers back at the end of the day.
What containers are they?
I've got loads of good quality clean 20/25ltr cubies you can have if your short of'm.
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I can bring 20 ltrs of both, but I'd like the containers back at the end of the day.
What containers are they?
I've got loads of good quality clean 20/25ltr cubies you can have if your short of'm.
I've slung out all my cubies.
This is going to sound really anal, and give the Julian bashers a fieldday, the oil container is part of a matching set that stack, seal and pour really well and that I use for storing excess oil. My other oil is all in stabbed drums which I don't want to put in the car. The bio is in my anti-glug pourer, nothing terribly special but I'd like to hang on to it.
By Saturday there will surely be some spares cubies kicking around into which I can decant the stuff.
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I will have the empties the red and veg mix is in, should be fine.
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Since the water volume is much higher than initially anticipated and I'm not convinced on the flow through hose and coil will cut it I'll bring a much bigger pump so we can pump water directly in and out of the 205 the m67 is in.
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To give you guys an idea, when i set my up last week i filled it with cold water from the tap all the way up to full (7500 litres).
I then started heating it. My system has a 15KW oil boiler heating the main pool flow circuit via a 100000BTU/Hr stainless heat exchanger.
It took about 6hrs running and nearly a whole 25 litre can of biodiesel to get it to a comfy 30C. So plan on a long burn to get it warm
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Edit: energy calculation re-done on next page
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I was going to ask if we needed to bring "pool fuel" as well as gambling oil and donation oil.
I have about 15L of red I been wondering what to do with, so I'll bring it along.
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We can mix it all up for the M67. Pool heating aside we can heat water for washing up too.
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I think I know the answer, but I also have about 15L of veg/engine oil mix, would that be OK in the M67 (if mixed in with the rest) ?
The BBB threads seem to be a little quite this year, I get the feeling that we'll only see the usual suspects and not many new faces, shame if that's the case.
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sorry, I ran off to oxford for 3 days in the middle of offering to buy a pool online and then had no internet access to reply!
I'll make sure to bring a tenner with me, and I can bring a decent amount of red too, but won;t be turning up till Friday night
also, I've got a 30m coil of 3/8 copper pipe I could bring down to help the heat exchanger along if that will help ? - but I think I;ll be too late by Saturday :-(
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Julian can you reserve stock at the shop to ensure they have it in?
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Julian can you reserve stock at the shop to ensure they have it in?
I imagine so but usually you have to pay by card to do so. I missed a payment which is now covered, but the card's not working.
I'm out most of the day tomorrow, but I'll try giving them a ring before I leave to sus out the situation for Monday. If Woking don't have one, I'll have to check other stores on route ... I think Argos also do them, but parking at their stores isn't usually as convenient as ToysRus.
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I have an oil burner that we can probably setup to heat the outside of the drum too.
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Can we get a spare steel drum to the field? I also have a burner which we may be able to use. But the M67 drum is nicely painted and I was planning on insulation wrapping it.
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Julian can you reserve stock at the shop to ensure they have it in?
I imagine so but usually you have to pay by card to do so. I missed a payment which is now covered, but the card's not working.
I'm out most of the day tomorrow, but I'll try giving them a ring before I leave to sus out the situation for Monday. If Woking don't have one, I'll have to check other stores on route ... I think Argos also do them, but parking at their stores isn't usually as convenient as ToysRus.
Bad idea Julian, Argos are another 30 quid.
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OK, Woking have at least six in stock.
Checking entailed a chap on a cordless phone searching the store for the item based on my description. There's three reference numbers for it on the website, but he said it was easier and quicker to check the stock on the shelves!
What ever happened to the age of computers?
Anyway I endeavor to make the run tomorrow, Chug where's the safest place to leave it?
Has anyone thought about chemicals for the pool? If not I can take a bag (or part bag, what ever we have left) of salt up tomorrow. Probably not as good as chlorine but better than nothing.
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I will be up the field late afternoon today, I'll PM you Julian.
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Jules are you sure your pool takes 7500l? Because Intex say the 10 ft one will be 4,485l to 90% of wall height.
That does tally, 10ft is 3.048m diameter (radius 1.524m), height 30 inches which is 0.762m.
volume = pi*1.524*1.524*0.762 = 5.56 cubic meters
Maybe yours is the 12 ft one which comes out at 8 cubic meters?
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I've redone the calculations for the smaller water volume, spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ynR4Hv8YmHmyJQqYAvt0ltGQHVPrbFkcvo0CgIfH9yw/edit?usp=sharing
Spoiler: 2-8 hours depending on acceptable smoke level from M67, approx 15l biodiesel (will be more with heat loss and running the M67 harder)
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Good stuff, but from tests I've done in the past, mains water seems to be a pretty constant 10°C or there abouts after running for a while.
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That's the beauty of a spreadsheet, enter one number and the rest jigs around :) (3-11.5 hours, 20l bio)
I took cold water temp as a guesstimate from here:
http://www.zenexenergy.co.uk/Zenex1/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=5&limitstart=1
I'll bring the IR thermometer so we can keep an eye on temps, it'll be fun :) (In all honesty, I'm looking forward to the process of heating the pool at least as much as the idea of being in it)
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The other thing I was wondering - steps and access. Can't see Lynda vaulting over the edge, so some sort of steps may be in order.
Also, how are we going to minimise mud and grass ingress?
I propose at least a tarp that we keep swept clean as a walkway to the pool, if not a shallow container of some sort to rinse off feet before entering the pool.
Is there anything we can put the pool up on for insulation/protection against sharp things? Bit of old carpet?
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I think it will need carpet underneath as a minimum. If it's big enough it'll solve the mud problem. A layer of bales would both insulate and protect.
Perhaps a a foot bath (cut down 20 ltr plastic drum) to wash mud off feet before entering.
I'd thought about a ladder. The sides are only 30" so perhaps a step inside and out might do it. However, I have a spare 4 section fold up ladder I'll deliver today. I measured it and it's not exactly suitable as is but I'm happy if someone wants to do a cut and bolt job on it to make it fit.
Head Womble said he had insulation for the outside.
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It would be cool if we could use the Lister to heat the pool too, though we'd need to make flanges to fit the Lister's ports and need another small electric pump+pipework.
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I have 2 arc welders coming from various places around the UK, got a drill etc.. Do don't see fabbing something up being a biggie. Any one that gets there before me speak to Jim or Richard to use them.
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The pool, ½ a bag of salt and the ladder are at the field.
I have a large blower ... not sure if it makes enough pressure but I'll try and find it and check it out before Saturday.
Might need to modify the heat calcs. to account for air carrying the heat away! And no is the answer to your next question.
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It looks like the plan is combing together.
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I picked up a rug today, 5ft x 7ft so that's part of the base area covered. Got a large tarp too. Will be up Thursday morning or Wednesday evening.
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Pool delivered to field yesterday ok, cheers Julian.
I have a couple o builders bags of polystyrene and selotex offcuts and got a few old carpets in the veg plot to go underneath, also got a few old ladders we can use to make steps.
Gonna look for a 205 drum today
But after all this if it is a heatwave we might not want it heated if we need to cool off?
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Just had thought ... when the pool is first filled if several hose pipes can be connected together and laid out in the sun, en-route to the pool, and the water run in slowly, it may give it a few degrees head start.
Or the same thing running in and out of the pool driven by a pump would help a little.
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Guys just seen on Facebook someone selling a swimming pool ladder
Should I get it?
I'll be there Saturday or is that too late?
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(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv169/ROSSEY_123/863350B6-1EAF-42C8-B64B-C1255CC4AE27_zpsumq5arrn.png) (http://s680.photobucket.com/user/ROSSEY_123/media/863350B6-1EAF-42C8-B64B-C1255CC4AE27_zpsumq5arrn.png.html)
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Mark save ya money, but thanks for the offer, I have several old ladders of various descriptions so I'm sure we can make one from them.
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It's only a fiver mate
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Big thanks to Julian for going well out of his way to collect/deliver and front the money for the pool, my £10 is waiting for you.
I have just over 20L of veg/engine oil/miss fuel ready for pool fuel.
I spoke to Carl (etz250) today and he'll be joining us from Friday.
I dug out the silver bubble wrap today, there's not as much as I thought but I'll bring it along anyway.
Who's made it there so far, are we missing much ?
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Yes Julian definitely deserves some thanks for that!
Chug rightly points out that a hot pool in a heatwave might not be as pleasant as a cool pool.
I would just add that a hot pool on a cool evening in the dark is something glorious too. :D
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Yes Julian definitely deserves some thanks for that!
Chug rightly points out that a hot pool in a heatwave might not be as pleasant as a cool pool.
I would just add that a hot pool on a cool evening in the dark is something glorious too. :D
Turn the heat up a couple of hours before the sun goes down, that should be the best of both worlds.
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Pool fuel I volunteered to bring 90lts of first stage bio down decided to do a full
conversion so will be bringing 90lts of my finest for Friday evening.
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I'm not gettin' in that pool at night with that Knighty about, it'd be like gettin'in a swimming pool with a shark.
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Pool fuel I volunteered to bring 90lts of first stage bio down decided to do a full
conversion so will be bringing 90lts of my finest for Friday evening.
Nice one! If our calculations are right though then we shouldn't need anywhere near that much, but best to have too much rather than too little :)
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I'm not gettin' in that pool at night with that Knighty about, it'd be like gettin'in a swimming pool with a shark.
I was thinking the same thing about all you dodge pots seeing me half naked....
it's not my fault I'm so good looking... it's hard work being this good looking you know!
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4 pm yesterday our 10' inflatable pool was 24'c. Eldest daughter was straight in it from school then was dragged out at 8pm for a shower n bed. They both keep asking if chugs got a hot tub but I told them it got crushed so no. Can't wait to see their faces when they think they've not got their cosies packed.
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You're so cruel ;)
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it's not my fault I'm so good looking... it's hard work being this good looking you know!
"Mirror mirror on the wall" and yours tells you lies, it's taking pity on you.
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Occupational hazard working in a dog food factory, talking a load of tripe, and he smells offal to boot.....
Muhahaha puns intended ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So who is already there? I'm loaded up and heading over Thursday morning.
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Occupational hazard working in a dog food factory, talking a load of tripe, and he smells offal to boot.....
Muhahaha puns intended ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
don't remember you complaining in the toilets last time....... :o