Acetone to aid reaction !

[Tony]

As a matter of interest, mon and di-glycerides are used as emulsifiers in the food industry.

From my experience the glycerides only seem to precipitate out in the presents of water, incomplete reaction leaves mono and di's suspended in the bio, water was and hey presto.

But we only see it in winter - and the rest of the bio is crystal clear.  It could be that the monos have a higher melt point than bio but we don't see them in summer because of the heat.

[Dickjotec]

As a matter of interest, mon and di-glycerides are used as emulsifiers in the food industry.

From my experience the glycerides only seem to precipitate out in the presents of water, incomplete reaction leaves mono and di's suspended in the bio, water was and hey presto.

 

This could point to bubbling with damp air bringing them up? Perhaps it would be worth drying the air some how?

Never had a cloudy 10/90 pass at 20 deg C, don't bubble, do water wash until a 50/50 clear, but it still drops out at sub-zero temps.  So probably nothing to do with bubbling.

I was thinking of the foam that formed on the top of my acetone batch. I have never had foam before and I don't think bubbling causes the monos just brings them up if the air is damp?

[nathanrobo]

Ah!  Can't play with the new chems at the mo 

[Dickjotec]

I am going to do another acetone batch tomorrow. 160L stage 1 25l meth 800 NaOH 400ml acetone. I will finalise the pics of the 'HMPE' and update the. Other thread hopefully tomorrow.

We could really do with a name for the HMPE/ mono / di gly/ fats until we know what they are (if we ever do!) Fallout does not seem to fit the purpose.
Dick

[1958steveflying]

I am going to do another acetone batch tomorrow. 160L stage 1 25l meth 800 NaOH 400ml acetone. I will finalise the pics of the 'HMPE' and update the. Other thread hopefully tomorrow.

We could really do with a name for the HMPE/ mono / di gly/ fats until we know what they are (if we ever do!) Fallout does not seem to fit the purpose.
Dick

Well the HMP is correct, we just don't know if they are esters,   perhaps HMPC. ! !

[1958steveflying]

Ps: good luck with the batch.

[Dickjotec]

I have filtered the HMP? from the last batch out through a sheet. This is the residue, around 5L but I have not measured it yet.



The new batch is going fine.
160L
800g NaOH
25L meth
400ml acetone

Fall out 2

5L
160g

Pass

After stage 1 about half the usual amount of glyc.

Now heating to WBD

Dick

[nathanrobo]

I have filtered the HMP? from the last batch out through a sheet. This is the residue, around 5L but I have not measured it yet.



The new batch is going fine.
160L
800g NaOH
25L meth
400ml acetone

Fall out 2

5L
160g

Pass

After stage 1 about half the usual amount of glyc.

Now heating to WBD

Dick

Could you see the high melting point elements before filtering?  I recon my settled out in the cold fuel would go straight through a sheet etc. as it looks good and clear prior to filtering.

[1958steveflying]

I have filtered the HMP? from the last batch out through a sheet. This is the residue, around 5L but I have not measured it yet.



The new batch is going fine.
160L
800g NaOH
25L meth
400ml acetone

Fall out 2

5L
160g

Pass

After stage 1 about half the usual amount of glyc.

Now heating to WBD

Dick

That seems a lot from 1 batch, what was your feedstock again ?  what temperature was this filtering done at ?

[Dickjotec]

It was not all from the one batch so I can't say how much of it was the acetone batch, I last emptied the tank a couple of months, or more, ago. Feedstock is mixed runny oil, not much whites in the last batch, or this one.
It was filtered at ambient over a period of days. Temps here have been around freezing.
I will know better with this batch as the tank is now clean.
Dick

[Dickjotec]

I have filtered the HMP? from the last batch out through a sheet. This is the residue, around 5L but I have not measured it yet.



The new batch is going fine.
160L
800g NaOH
25L meth
400ml acetone

Fall out 2

5L
160g

Pass

After stage 1 about half the usual amount of glyc.

Now heating to WBD

Dick

Could you see the high melting point elements before filtering?  I recon my settled out in the cold fuel would go straight through a sheet etc. as it looks good and clear prior to filtering.

Yes it was very obvious, I took about 25l of bio out of the bottom of the tank and put it throug the sheet. The bio that went through now looks clear.
Dick

[Jamesrl]

With that amount of HMPE I reckon you should drop the WBD for the next batch and only demeth the Bio, I stop WBD when winter arrives to prevent exactly that problem.

You can always recover most of the methanol in the glyc with a glyc wash.

[Dickjotec]

With that amount of HMPE I reckon you should drop the WBD for the next batch and only demeth the Bio, I stop WBD when winter arrives to prevent exactly that problem.

You can always recover most of the methanol in the glyc with a glyc wash.

That was a bio only demeth! As said above it was probably not from just the acetone batch.
I am just settling the next acetone batch. This is WBD but interestingly I have got no more meth back than in the last batch.
Will post results after I have decanted in an hour.
Dick

[Dickjotec]

Brief results from 160L acetone 400ml batch.
Condensate.      7L
Glyc.              25L
Bio.                157L

These are approximate.  It is now bubbling will it foam again?
Very pleased less glyc more bio than normal 2 stage for me.

Dick

[JV3]

Hi,

I am very new to this board and very new to biodiesel production.  I just want to thank you all for the work that you are doing.

Right now I am doing a lot of research and reading because I have a bit of time on my hands. 

I'm reading the Biodiesel Handbook by Gerhard Knothe and Jon Van Gerpen.  In the chapter concerning transesterification it talks about glycerin removal.  It also lists that alcohols can be used to keep glycerin soluble in biodiesel.  I believe I read earlier that less glycerin is being removed from the reactor with acetone assisted reactions.  Could the glycerin be dissolved in the biodiesel?  Wouldn't this adversely effect the amount of free glycerol and total glycerol in the end product?  I only ask because measuring glycerol content in the biodiesel is an ASTM and EN quality standard. 

For the homebrewer this might not be a major concern but, having those long chain hydrocarbons passing through your engine cannot be a good thing.

Sorry to interupt but I thought this would be a great place to ask my questions.

Thanks