Acetone to aid reaction !

[Dickjotec]

Sounds good. If it did filter the HMPEs out there could not have been much else the pots would have blocked. I wonder if the effect of the acetone makes a small amount of HMPE look more?

I have filtered the white part of the jar water wash I did and think it is an emulsion made worse by the effect of the acetone. I will test it tomorrow.

I am quite happy with the result of using acetone and intend to do another batch to, hopefully improve the results.
Dick

[1958steveflying]

I had a 50/50 sample that had a middle layer exactly like yours, after fuging a couple of times the 50/50 was totally clear. I don't doubt though that it could be Acetone related as I had never seen anything like it before. Having said that I have gone months in between 50/50 testing so I could have missed a batch that reacted the same.

[1958steveflying]

My next batch is going to have more Acetone and less heat, how much of each I am yet to decide !

[Dickjotec]

I intend to react at same temp and reduce the acetone. Between us we may reach a conclusion about what is happening!
Dick

[Dickjotec]

Took sample from bottom take off in settling tank today now crystal clear and good 50/50, it will be at least another week before I filter into storage so it looks like a good result.
Dick

[1958steveflying]

Took sample from bottom take off in settling tank today now crystal clear and good 50/50, it will be at least another week before I filter into storage so it looks like a good result.
Dick

That's good to hear Dick.

[thewormman]

Based on their specific weights at 20*C

1 litre of Acetone would weigh 784.58g

1 litre of Methanol would weigh 787.73g

Additional weight for Methanol is 3.15g per litre.

So if for example 1 litre condensed distillate recovered after processing weighs say 785.30g

This would mean an additional 0.72g over the expected weight of just Acetone.

So by working out the percentage of the additional amount we can work out the volume of methanol.

eg. 0.72 divided by 3.15 = 0.2286

To get a percentage we times by 100

0.2286x100 = 22.86% and since we used 1 litre as a starting point

22.86% of 1 litre is 228.6 ml of Methanol

So we can then use this in the next batch, knowing how much Meth and how much Acetone we have in the distillate we can work out the volumes required.

I think this is right but please correct me if I am wrong I am not a chemist or mathematician! 

Just a quick one
Also in the distillate will be a % of water so not sure how accurate a sg test would be.
I could do a water in oil test but using a meth/water / acertone to see if I can get a accurate water result then do some simple sg test to see how well the calc's work out.
I'm affraid this my be a test for another day

Still pursuing this side of things 

If the distillate is run through a 3A molecular sieve the water could be removed pretty much completely, so then we would be able to weigh a litre and know exactly what percentage of Acetone/Methanol there is.

We can then add whatever one is needed to bring it back to its right percentages.

I have done a lot of reading on these things and have basically come full circle back again to this conclusion.

I cant contribute practical experience at the moment only theory but will try this when I am able to by mixing them and measuring.

[Carrington]

Sorry Dave I'm up to my neck in it at the moment ( haven't got time to swing a cat at mo) will try and do some test next week

Paul

[thewormman]

Sorry Dave I'm up to my neck in it at the moment ( haven't got time to swing a cat at mo) will try and do some test next week

Paul

Thats ok I wasn't rattling your cage    Im just getting a bit frustrated cos I cant do anything physical at the moment     so just reading lots and talking really...
Dont usually have the time to do it, funnily enough when reading up on drying acetone and methanol the best places I found info was on forums discussing cocaine manufacture and magic mushrooms! 

[Tony]

Thats ok I wasn't rattling your cage    Im just getting a bit frustrated cos I cant do anything physical at the moment     so just reading lots and talking really...
Dont usually have the time to do it, funnily enough when reading up on drying acetone and methanol the best places I found info was on forums discussing cocaine manufacture and magic mushrooms! 

I saw a program on cocaine once, they were making it in drums not too dissimilar to ones we use for oil collection, but with with kerosene and diesel mixes and all sorts!  All the waste hydrocarbon slurry just tipped into the jungle rivers.  Yuk!

[photoman290]

Sorry Dave I'm up to my neck in it at the moment ( haven't got time to swing a cat at mo) will try and do some test next week

Paul

Thats ok I wasn't rattling your cage    Im just getting a bit frustrated cos I cant do anything physical at the moment     so just reading lots and talking really...
Dont usually have the time to do it, funnily enough when reading up on drying acetone and methanol the best places I found info was on forums discussing cocaine manufacture and magic mushrooms! 

you noticed that as well? i got lots of stuff on making hash oil when i looked. not sure i would trust someone making hash oil to be totally precise in there measurements and conclusions. well they may have been when they started  but as the product is being tested the measurements could start getting a little adrift.

[Tony]

you noticed that as well? i got lots of stuff on making hash oil when i looked. not sure i would trust someone making hash oil to be totally precise in there measurements and conclusions. well they may have been when they started  but as the product is being tested the measurements could start getting a little adrift.

Cannabis oil seems to be made with a bunch of stuff (Methanol, Isopropyl, Acetone - lots - whatever is available I guess) but we know that oils and Methanol don't mix.  That said, maybe Cannabis plant oils are soluble in Methanol?

The idea of using harmful solvents for extraction doesn't strike me as a good idea, but if I was ever even thinking of possibly doing such a thing  Isopropyl would likely be best of a bad bunch.

Having not googled this extensively, what are the conclusions on the best way to dry solvents?  I'm guessing fractional distillation is a little outside the realms of effort for most stoners.

[thewormman]

Having not googled this extensively, what are the conclusions on the best way to dry solvents?  I'm guessing fractional distillation is a little outside the realms of effort for most stoners.

Was quite strange to read actually, these things being discussed on an open forum 

Anyway what seemed to come up a lot was to use Epsom salts. The salts absorb water but not Acetone or Methanol, so you heat the salts to dry them first, then gradually add it to the Methanol, as it sucks up the water it forms into clumps so you keep adding it till it stops clumping, and stays as grains. It then drops down to the bottom of the jar and you just filter it out. Heat it to 150 degrees C to dry it then use it again.

The more scientific way is to use a Molecular sieve, basically crystals that are used in labs to dry these types of liquids. Good explanation here: http://www.bio.umass.edu/microscopy/mol_sieves.htm

This is what I reckon we can use to dry our distillate to be able to work out volume of Methanol to Acetone

[photoman290]

not sure we want to be adding a possibly corrosive salt solution to our bio. i know  molecular sieve no 3 is ok but not sure about epsom salts. does the water matter that much? apart from academically. we know the reaction works with less than 25% acetone so as long as we get most of the acetone back i cant see removing the water being too big a deal.

[Carrington]

I don't think the salt would remain in the meth/acetone , it would just settle to the bottom , I thing sodium sulphate would probable do the same job as this is another drying salt. For sodium sulphate I create about 100kg's a day just haven't got round to trying to dry it yet to see how good it is at water absorption. Is there a situation's vacant on this site I could do with a apprentice ( low wages harsh conditions grumpy boss )