Acetone to aid reaction !

[1958steveflying]

Multi use, Nathan Has one we are yet to try with fully demethed Bio.

[Julian]

Having read thewormman's summery earlier today it set me thinking ...

The main action of Acetone is to aid intimate mixing of the oil and Methanol.  This works because Acetone is miscible with both oil and Methanol.

Biodiesel is also miscible with both oil and methanol, probably not as well, but it's available to us at minimal cost and it won't need removing from the process.

I've done a quick test.  Nothing scientific just jars of new sunflower oil, very roughly 20% Methanol and a "splash" of Biodiesel.

Gave the mixes a gentle end over end shake in the shed ambient of around 8°C and there was a noticeable difference between the jars with Bio and the control without.  No catalyst was included. 

Jars were taken inside and sat on a radiator for half an hour and gently shaken again.  This is the result ...



From left to right ... Oil and Methanol only,  Oil + a Methanol and Bio mix (gently shaken),  Oil and Bio mix (gently shaken) + Methanol.

Anyone any thoughts?  Can someone replicate the experiment to make sure I'm not being a complete Muppet?

[K.H]

Multi use, Nathan Has one we are yet to try with fully demethed Bio.

Did he give you the acid?

[Carrington]

Can't see the pick's
Could see the ones from yesterday

[Julian]

The ones yesterday were uploaded to the wiki because I was going to add them to the Dr Pepper page.

I'll stick this one on the wiki too, it's currently on my web space.

[Julian]

There you go ...

[Carrington]

Hi Julian
I can see your workings but I'm not sure we could introduce enough catylist into the mix using bio as a cosolvent . Really nice idea tbough

[Julian]

My thoughts were to use the normal methanol quantity with ASM and enough bio to help mix.  Why would bio impede catalyst addition?

[Carrington]

Hi Julian
I'm not sure but if you used the same amount of bio as you do meth then and you put the right amount of catylist in you would be massively overdosing the bio but it may just work . Think reaction temp wants to be up in the 60's to help it all on .
I could make it my first test in the morning . If it goes ok we can work out which way we want to go. 
Lower temp
Faster reaction
Less chem's

[Head Womble]

This thread has grown very quickly today, guess I'm the only one that's been to work.

Dave (thewormman).
Considering you've yet to make any bio you've really got a good understanding of the principles involved.

When I said to do some reading I didn't expect you to learn so much so quick, well done mate,
sounds like you're going to be a valued member on here.

[Dickjotec]

Julian
I am missing something. If the bio is a good co solvent then I would have thought that as soon as a reaction started, in a normal reaction, and bio was made this would accelerate the process and the reaction would then compleat quickly?
Dick

[Julian]

Julian
I am missing something. If the bio is a good co solvent then I would have thought that as soon as a reaction started, in a normal reaction, and bio was made this would accelerate the process and the reaction would then compleat quickly?
Dick

I'd tend to agree but as far as I can see the bio is doing a very similar thing to the Acetone.  What helped this train of thought was to see the changes in colour and consistency when I did the Dr Pepper test the other day.  See photos in this thread ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,874.0/topicseen.html.

I just wish I understood the chemistry of all this even to a minor degree, but anything is worth a try.

[nigelb]

If anybody needs some Acetone for future experiments my supplier has 2 x 25lt left at the old price. They are £30 each. Not a bad price I'm told. I'm sure someone somewhere can get it cheaper but that's the current price I can get it for.

I'm picking a 25lt up for photoman tomorrow. I could easily pick up the other two.

Trying to help

Nige

[Carrington]

One thought with the bio cosolvent theory
The acertone prevents the meth being drawn into the Glyc this helps keep the max amount of meth for the conversion but if using bio as the cosolvent then the meth can be consumed by the Glyc this making the reaction slower

Will still give it a go in the morning and post results
Will also post up on yesterday's micro batch after it was mixed a second time for 1.5 mins at 20c with the Glyc left in.

All looking good and interesting

[Julian]

A couple of hours ago I added 3ml of neat ASM to the sample that looked the most homogeneous ... the one where I mixed the Methanol and Bio together before adding to the oil.  This has been shaken gently and left on a radiator.  I guess the temperature of the sample is around 20°C.

This is what it looks like ...



It's certainly changed, into what I don't know.  The answer to the obvious question is no, there's no drop out of any sort!