Soaps/Acetone

[nigelb]

Send me you addy via the message service and I'll pop a couple in the post.

Nige

[Julian]

Mark, if you're over this way I've got loads of IPA if you want some.

[1958steveflying]

Mark..I think some people need to lay off tagging posts as negative. These are just different views which some don't like. A statement is a statement. The inference of negativity is often maligned and misunderstood.  As previously stated, it's a matter of perspective.

Nige

My last say on this. (thank goodness I hear some say)

This thread is in the interest of further development that can and has lead to even more developments and interesting reaction processes using Acetone..

Your early post of and I quote :
 
"I don't want to rain on your parade guys but there really is no need to add unnecessary chemicals to your bio to lower the soap ppm's further. As a final wash, try a hot pump wash. The residual heat left behind after this process is then used to dry the bio.

Nige"

We never said that it was to lower the soap ppm's further so it is Negative or of no use with regard to the thread and has no place what so ever in the thread because it is nothing to do with adding Acetone or the benefits of it.

If your View as you put it was you are not interested, your process is perfect as it is and you have no interest in testing then why did you bother to " rain on our parade" because we are interested or we would not be trying things outside the box.

[Head Womble]

Send me you addy via the message service and I'll pop a couple in the post.

Nige

PM sent.

[Head Womble]

Come on guy's, it's getting like the VOD.

Lets get back on track and keep going with the job in hand.

One of the best things about the wiki forum is it's openness and lack of bickering.

Nige has made his position clear, he's got a process that works for him, he has in the past helped many others produce low soap fuel (myself included).
He's even put a test kit together and offers it to other members at a very reasonable price.
So he is working with us, not against us.

Steve is working towards pushing acetone reactions forward, and from what I've read, so far it's looking very promising.

I've done some testing with acetion in the wash water, others seam to want to take up the testing on this also.

Julian and others have done testing on on adding acid to the reaction before demething.

The acid pump washing is now getting widely used.

So, we're all working together, for a common goal of pushing things forward.

So lets sit back, take a deep breath and remember what we're trying to do.

We have made great gains in a short time, all of this has been done through the cooperation of members.

[photoman290]

well said mark we need results good ones and failures, especially the failures. that is how the process will progress. having a water jacketed processor is definatley the safer option with acetone recovery. i now a bit more about cold traps than i did, still not enough. keep finding all the stuff on acetone recovery seems to geared towards illegal substance extraction. will try and wade though it. given the sort of people wanting to know how its done ,wading is definatly the correct term. man..... bet they are all 14 and from somewhere in Arizona.

[nigelb]

Mark..I think some people need to lay off tagging posts as negative. These are just different views which some don't like. A statement is a statement. The inference of negativity is often maligned and misunderstood.  As previously stated, it's a matter of perspective.

Nige

My last say on this. (thank goodness I hear some say)

This thread is in the interest of further development that can and has lead to even more developments and interesting reaction processes using Acetone..

Your early post of and I quote :
 
"I don't want to rain on your parade guys but there really is no need to add unnecessary chemicals to your bio to lower the soap ppm's further. As a final wash, try a hot pump wash. The residual heat left behind after this process is then used to dry the bio.

Nige"

We never said that it was to lower the soap ppm's further so it is Negative or of no use with regard to the thread and has no place what so ever in the thread because it is nothing to do with adding Acetone or the benefits of it.

If your View as you put it was you are not interested, your process is perfect as it is and you have no interest in testing then why did you bother to " rain on our parade" because we are interested or we would not be trying things outside the box.

I was merely trying to enlighten you to the possibilities of washing effectivly, efficiently and without the need for additional chemicals.  All my comments have been positive and I have a process that you might want to exam at some point. I remember a few years ago when water washing was considered wasteful and old fashioned and the future lay at the door of WBD. We all know which direction that's going. The future is sometimes to be found in the past. I think I'll put that in my sig

I will always post up my positive comments where I feel the less experinced would benefit and discuss them accordingly.

Thank goodness you've had your last say

Mark..VOD or no VOD this is a discussion forum.

I hope that your soaps are SETTLED to your satisfaction at a speed you are happy with. I know mine are.

[Tony]

Results are in:

- two 500ml samples from a batch that has had the Methanol bubbled off
- 0.1ml Acetone put in one sample
- settled for 9 days

Both have a similar layer of light soap at the bottom, and a soap test indicates very similar soap content, so Acetone for settling alone does not appear to help at this concentration.

[Head Womble]

Tanks Tony, this test has been usefull,
but may have been more usefull it's soap tests were to have been done on each day rather than at the end.

[Tony]

what would you say a clear 50/50 test indicates as far as ppm levels.
I know I have tested one of mine at 76ppm.

I still do 50/50 tests as it's quicker and easier than Nige's soap test (though the buck stops at the titrated test for accuracy).

The trouble is that "clear" water covers a range of ppms soap, probably up to 100ppm even before it begins to look less sparkly.  This is where lasers come in, in a dark room a laser through the water layer will show a beam right down to the lower ppms.  If I can't make out the beam in a dark room I reckon it's down at <25ppm (though I've not done any formal testing on this - might be worth experimenting!).  I always use near boiling water to get quick and clean separation.  I feel that the 50/50 still has a place in testing but it's very much one of those things that takes a while to get a feel for, rather than the titrated test which is consistent every time.

[Head Womble]

I agree the 50/50 test still has a use, I have, and still do, use fuel that passes this test.
 
However when we are doing testing/researching of new methods this should only be used as an indication that soap content is starting to drop to titrated testing levels.

[nigelb]

Results are in:

- two 500ml samples from a batch that has had the Methanol bubbled off
- 0.1ml Acetone put in one sample
- settled for 9 days

Both have a similar layer of light soap at the bottom, and a soap test indicates very similar soap content, so Acetone for settling alone does not appear to help at this concentration.

Is there any reason Tony for testing at 9 days. How did you come up with this as a time frame?

[Tony]

So, we're all working together, for a common goal of pushing things forward.

So lets sit back, take a deep breath and remember what we're trying to do.

We have made great gains in a short time, all of this has been done through the cooperation of members.

Well said Mark.

[Tony]

Results are in:

- two 500ml samples from a batch that has had the Methanol bubbled off
- 0.1ml Acetone put in one sample
- settled for 9 days

Both have a similar layer of light soap at the bottom, and a soap test indicates very similar soap content, so Acetone for settling alone does not appear to help at this concentration.

Is there any reason Tony for testing at 9 days. How did you come up with this as a time frame?

A great many reasons, none of which relate to scientific rigour but do relate to daughter's 13th birthday party, snow, cancellation of party, being bloody cold and having more fun indoors battling the lad with Nerf guns in the warm

OK so usually my winter process involves settling for two weeks, this test is therefore somewhat towards the end but I wanted some soap still present in the control sample for the test - in case with the Acetone it had all dropped like a stone leaving me with miraculously clear biodiesel, which doesn't appear the case.  Sure I could test every day all the way through, but have you been out there?  Brrr!

[Tony]

I remember a few years ago when water washing was considered wasteful and old fashioned and the future lay at the door of WBD. We all know which direction that's going.

What, you're not still using water are you grandpa? 

The future is sometimes to be found in the past. I think I'll put that in my sig

Totally agree, WBD and settle all the way!  No water in my process thankyou very much