Author Topic: notit fixed eductor (Read 4077 times)

stamper · « **on:** November 10, 2012, 03:58:49 PM »

Hi all,
been making fuel for a while now and had good results with notit method but wondered if anyone has tried or think this may work ?
basically i make 50 litre batches JamesRL50 jobby.
process at moment : 50L oil , 8L meth , mix 45-60 mins with eductor on. 3/27 test and use notit calc asper this site and add what is needed to get a pass.
now the meth /oil level is not at its optimum so abit of gurgling from eductor not so much a problem but wondered if i was to make up the difference with oil and change meth and naoh quantites to suit the position of the eductor, so instead of a 50 litre batch im doing in total a 55-58 litre batch. Hope im not sounding confusing.
im going to do a batch tomorrow hopefully and any comments prior to this would be appreciated. i do WBD at the end so hoping i can still reclaim meth back with slightly lower head space.

All the best
Neil

Rotary-Motion · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2012, 08:07:20 PM »

hi chap

nice to meet a new person here, im not really bio so others will help ya out here, but just came in to say hi as your worc and im over there more theses days

hows ya oil contacts are you getting plenty?

K.H · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2012, 08:25:58 PM »

Let me see if i have this right
The eductor is set ok for the first stage? but when you remove the glyc and add the second stage meth it is now below the correct level?
If you then add oil/meth/NaOH to get back to the correct level the oil will not have gone through the first stage reaction?

julianf · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2012, 09:19:44 PM »

I would not think stratification to be a big problem on 50 ltr batches.

In which case, the level of the eductor wouldnt be as important.

In short, i wouldnt worry about it : )

stamper · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2012, 09:53:38 PM »

Thanks for the replys guys.
Yes the eductor is in a fixed position for 50l batch. i was just toying with the idea that maybe i could actually get a massive 58 litres instead of the 50l

first stage would be done as notit and then the extra 8 litres of unreacted oil i would add extra naoh and meth. it was just something i was thinking of doing as a trial or another thought was to drain about 2 litres of glyc and then do second stage with remaining meth/naoh. i know the notit works just a different spin on it perhaps.
I only get a small quantity of oil at a time so im happy with the smaller plant.
K.H : yes the 2nd stage new oil has not been reacted so excess meth / naoh would be added. i know it sounds strange but just an idea i would throw out there.
Rotary: Oil is not to plentyfull round here, a couple of waste oil companies supplying fresh and taking old away

but i get enough to make the odd batch.

Cheers guys

Head Womble · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2012, 10:07:56 PM »

Hi Stanper and welcome to the wiki.

Adding extra oil after the first stage will not work, you'll have no idea how much extra catalyst to add.

Think of it this way, with the original 50L having been through the first stage you can calculate the amount of catalyst need from the 10/90 test,
but with extra oil added that hasn't had any reaction you have nothing to base the calculations on.

However if you increase your initial batch size and do the normal two stage non titration, but don't add the first stage gly back in until you have recovered sufficient meths to make room for the rest of the gly.
This way you increase your batch size without compromising conversion %.

Hope this makes sense to you.

stamper · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2012, 10:21:22 PM »

Hi mark,
that makes sense to me, and i have done that by mistake before

. it worked to some extent but my concern was that i wasnt getting the best mixing from the eductor. i know Jim has put alot of time into getting the height right etc for optimum mixing. maybe im just being over fussy but maybe something might come of it.
in the past 4years or so of making bio the ways of making it have evolved somewhat and i thought i might chip in with something.
the other thing that i do with WBD is i only go up to 70 deg and touch wood since doing this i have not had any hmpe probs. just WBD , drain glyc , pump over , bubble and settle for a day or 2.

i get back 3.5 to 4 litres of meth per batch through my mini quad condensor

Head Womble · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »

I've recently started doing 200L batches (used to do 180L) and not reclaiming the meths.
This way I can do a gly wash then non titration reaction, acid titration water wash, this has greatly reduced HMPE's for me.

Rotary-Motion · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2012, 07:10:08 AM »

Quote from: stamper on November 10, 2012, 09:53:38 PM

Thanks for the replys guys.
Yes the eductor is in a fixed position for 50l batch. i was just toying with the idea that maybe i could actually get a massive 58 litres instead of the 50l first stage would be done as notit and then the extra 8 litres of unreacted oil i would add extra naoh and meth. it was just something i was thinking of doing as a trial or another thought was to drain about 2 litres of glyc and then do second stage with remaining meth/naoh. i know the notit works just a different spin on it perhaps.
I only get a small quantity of oil at a time so im happy with the smaller plant.
K.H : yes the 2nd stage new oil has not been reacted so excess meth / naoh would be added. i know it sounds strange but just an idea i would throw out there.
Rotary: Oil is not to plentyfull round here, a couple of waste oil companies supplying fresh and taking old away but i get enough to make the odd batch.

Cheers guys

yes i know the feeling mine keep going down and down, just ticking over but wouldnt like to loose one more....

good luck on the bio though, they do say this method is quite good...

nigelb · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2012, 07:26:29 AM »

Stamper...to be honest you probably don't gain an awful lot from an eductor on such a small plant. I too used to own a JRL 50lt unit with an eductor and through many batches discovered that the eductor was unnecessary because of the turnover of fluid with the TAM 105 pump that drove the reaction. It got to the point where it all it ever did was put strain on the pump not increase the speed of the reaction. However, if you were to run a 200lt plant with a TAM 105 then I can see where an eductor would be beneficial.

I now have a 150lt unit with an 80lt pump and get really good reactions without the addition of ancilliary equipment.

My advice would be to use the eductor for stage one if you feel you get some benefit from it but don't worry about it for stage two.

Nige

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