Author Topic: In processor titrated water wash method (Read 109699 times)

Glycer-rides · « **Reply #120 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:02:17 AM »

Pool chems seem to be well priced.

25L of 28% HCL for 30 quid in Farborough, http://www.onlinepoolstore.co.uk/hydrochloric-acid-28---25-litres-31-p.asp

Head Womble · « **Reply #121 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:23:16 AM »

I've just brought some of this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amokleen-Spirits-of-Salt-500ml/dp/B002SP7I0K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1350469230&sr=8-2
but the 5L which is stronger (32% hydrochloric acid), it was £17.70 but I should get quite a few batches from it.

Carl (etz250 on the VOD) can get 98% sulfuric acid at a good price so I'll get him to pick me up some soon.

Settling the first wash now and the sample looks good with no emulsion, all good so far.

Carrington · « **Reply #122 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:22:45 PM »

Hi all
Just a quick look in between running round like a headless chicken.
Looking at Julian's pick with a bit of fine tuning you should be able to get your water in the second jar to settle clear meaning 1acid wash and 1clean water wash, this will reduce the moisture left in the bio and should mean that the bio is still hot ready for drying.

With regards to hydrchloric acid is does attack stainless steel but I'm not sure as to the strength it would need to be but also heat make the attack stronger ( just a thought ).

Sorry I haven't been much help on this thread but trucks down and life's gone crazy but I'm on the phone if anyone want's to chat about it all

Cheers

Paul

photoman290 · « **Reply #123 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:01:10 PM »

RE: acid and stainless steel. the person who does know about this is bertle. not sure if he is a member here.

Head Womble · « **Reply #124 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:25:00 PM »

I've just finished a third wash (probably could have got away with two but I know it was a soapy batch).

Soap test result was 30.4

(sorry Julian)

So to recap it was a 180L batch,
two stage non titration,
WBD,
Titration was 1.4, so 252ml of 32% hydrochloric acid added,
three washes,
it's now condensing off the water.

As long as I don't get HMPE's I'll be doing it this way from now on, it's just so easy.

No stainless steel in my plant.

Thanks guys.

Rob-b · « **Reply #125 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:30:46 PM »

Been reading this with intrigue, i've done this ever since I have been doing bio but went off the guideline of this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHgCm8QHG_Y , he works on 22ml per 100l of bio regardless of soaps and have to say have been getting the same results as this for some two years with nice clear washes and no emulsions.

My question is, what is the PH after you have washed? I need to wash at least 5/6 times with 20 litres of water each time in 180 litres of biodiesel to reach a PH of 7 ish, interesting to hear how many times you guys need to wash?

I always finish off with a stone cold wash with a watering can and rose without the pump, and leave for two or three days which seems to drag HMPE's out also, then I dry. It would just be nice to get a system that is much quicker and this sounds great if it can be achieved with titrating the soaps first and using the correct amount of acid.

I am just concerned that the amounts that are being used are too much and the same result can be acieved with less, as it can't be too friendly to car components with a high acid content if not fully washed out.

K.H · « **Reply #126 on:** October 17, 2012, 07:06:09 PM »

I tested mine (page 2 of this thread) as best i could and got a pH of 7.5 but i was using vinegar

Julian · « **Reply #127 on:** October 17, 2012, 07:18:17 PM »

Been trying to get my head round pH of Biodiesel. Had a long chat with a mate who's a PhD in chemistry, last night down the pub.

He says sticking litmus paper, indicator solution or a pH meter into bio won't work. I ask what happens when we titrate and apparently adding IPA allows the pH to be measured. He started explaining about releasing Hydrogen ions, allowing the pH to be measured and completely lost me. The one stipulation he made was that there must be sufficient IPA to allow release of all the hydrogen ions. When I asked how much is sufficient he didn't know.

I've just tried 5ml of the acid neutralised batch and 5 ml from a normal batch pre washing, neat and with 5, 10 and 15ml of IPA.

The acid neutralised batch showed no change to the colour of the litmus paper in any of the 4 tests.

The pre-wash, normal batch showed signs of being slightly alkaline when the neat sample was tested (did it twice to be sure) and no change with the three volumes of IPA.

I'd like to believe the tests, but I'm highly suspicious of the results.

Julian · « **Reply #128 on:** October 17, 2012, 07:59:47 PM »

Just spent half and hour Googling "testing pH of biodiesel". Just about every result showed a direct test with either litmus paper or a pH meter.

Very confused (situation normal ... thought I'd get that in before anyone else). Does anyone have a factual explanation as to why this works?

Wonder if testing a wet sample of bio during washing would produce a valid result?

K.H · « **Reply #129 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:08:16 PM »

If you cant test the bio,which is how i also understand it,what about testing the washwater?,maybe comparing it to a different wash methods water?

Julian · « **Reply #130 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:12:47 PM »

Just found this on the VOD, not by using the VOD search, but via Google ...

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=3251

Rob-b · « **Reply #131 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:26:51 PM »

Well, I was under the impression that you shake up your wet fuel and test with litmus, now I've always wondered about this because as your bio gets cleaner surely you are effectively testing the water that comes out of the tap and if you have soft water it is already acidic and vice verse.

So I just test the tap water and when the wash water becomes the same in the litmus test, then I have washed the acid out.

Rob-b · « **Reply #132 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:27:24 PM »

Just a follow up, how do you test KH?

K.H · « **Reply #133 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:51:16 PM »

Quote from: Rob-b on October 17, 2012, 08:27:24 PM

Just a follow up, how do you test KH?

Used universal indicator and it showed it not far off neutral,im not saying this method worked,just what result i got

Carrington · « **Reply #134 on:** October 17, 2012, 10:04:07 PM »

This is my take on the ph of bio
Veg oil and bio can't take on acid or base , this is one of the reasons we mix base with meth before mixing with the wvo. So any chemical that isn't spent in the reaction is left floating around in between all oil/bio molecule's . So when we do a 50/50 test the water washes out any remaining chem's or if we de-meth the they sink to the Bottom of the tank.
So my take is the bio is by its nature ph neutral and only the impurities left behind can give it any other ph reading and this is done by 50/50 test and then testing the water.
One example I can give is if I esterifiy oil the run tests the sample that get put through the centrifuge with be less acidic than the sample tested straight away.
Gona stop waffling now

Maybe this is just obviouse or it will help with some understanding or maybe I'm completely wrong and will get put straight

Paul

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In processor titrated water wash method