Author Topic: In processor titrated water wash method (Read 109631 times)

K.H · « **on:** September 30, 2012, 09:01:07 PM »

Me and Jules have been trialling a new method of washing suggested by Paul Carrington on here,it involves titrating the bio diesel and adding the correct amount of acid to neutralise the soap,this allows you to pump wash from the outset removing the chance of an emulsion,this can be done "in processor" and so far is proving a great sucess

Dickjotec · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2012, 09:48:25 PM »

Interesting tell me more! Or is it a state secret?
Dick

Carrington · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2012, 10:47:16 PM »

Hi dick
No secret, when the reaction has completed and you have a full conversion then settle out the Glyc. Once the Glyc has been removed mix bio and do a soap titration test using the same solution as you will use to neutralise the bio. Mix the acid and water required about 7-10% batch volume and pump mix in to reactor. Mix for few minuets them leave to settle. Drain water then pump in about 15% batch volume clean water pump for few minuets leave to settle . This should give you clean bio now dry as normal . Using acid at the start of washing means no emulsion production allowing for pump wash and using a lot less water and time.
Hope the makes sense.

Any probs drop me a line or give me a ring

Cheers

Paul

Julian · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2012, 11:00:31 PM »

Think I'll have to give that a go. I've stopped 7% washing in order to make Glogs, and that seems to promote emulsions forming during mist washing.

Last two batches I've had the white creamy lumps coming out with the wash water.

What acid do you use and what strength?

Carrington · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2012, 11:22:18 PM »

Hi Julian
You can use any acid solution for the washing , you just need to use the some acid in the titration solution . This allows you to calculate the exact amount of acid needed to remove soap and any unused catylist

I mist washed once about 7years ago then come up with this way to pump wash quick and easy

Julian · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2012, 11:39:22 PM »

I've got some concentrated sulphuric acid but I'd like to keep that to use in pickling baths.

Would vinegar do, or is it so weak that you'd need a tanker load?

K.H · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2012, 07:34:19 AM »

I used vinegar and Jules used Sulphuric,i will post up the method i used later this evening

Tony · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2012, 07:58:54 AM »

Interesting. It's mentioned here but the quantities involved didn't seem as well quantified.

http://www.biodieseldiscussion.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-10182.html

Carrington · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2012, 08:02:21 AM »

Morning all
Any acid liquid will work but I think the stronger the acid the more water needed to be mixed with it , so vinegar would probably work neat where sulphuric would def need diluting with water

Paul

Just had a look at Tony's link and will go back to it when my eye's wake up,

K.H · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2012, 09:03:09 AM »

A few people add acid before washing Richard P for one,where this differs is we titrate to get the exact amount

Carrington · « **Reply #10 on:** October 01, 2012, 09:39:32 AM »

Yes it the titration that is the difference , this way you can pump wash with confidence . Also if the FFA's are hygroscopic then they would be washed out with the clean water wash

Julian · « **Reply #11 on:** October 01, 2012, 03:14:51 PM »

I started reading the link Tony put up and one chap mentions "the Tickell book " this turns out to be From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank. I found it on Google books here ...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5tpLc8w4Ed4C&source=gbs_book_other_versions

This is the 2003 version. It's not a full version but reasonably complete.

The page thak mentions adding acid is here ...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5tpLc8w4Ed4C&lpg=PA9&pg=PA71#v=onepage&q&f=false

I'm thinking ... could we have a page on the wiki for links such as this? I can't see that we will have any copyright issues as, right or wrong, Google have already placed it in the public domain.

K.H · « **Reply #12 on:** October 01, 2012, 04:58:00 PM »

Depends if the info is current i suppose no point linking to out dated ones

Julian · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2012, 05:31:16 PM »

Good point, but a while back I wanted to find out about the 3/27 test. There was a post on the VOD stating that a cloudy result indicated MGs and DGs.

I'd not seen that before and spent a great deal of time looking for the earliest mention of the 3/27 test. I eventually found that Jan Warnqvist emailed it to Biofuel mailing list in Aug 2005., and there was no mention of MGs and DGs. When this was pointed out to the poster, he withdrew the comments.

In the light of the above, I think there possibly is merit in reproducing or linking to original material and to that end I've just stuck Jan's email on the wiki page under the topic References. I can remove it if people think it's inappropriate.

K.H · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2012, 05:48:33 PM »

Maybe put it under something like "archive"?,not sure?,something that would indicate that the some of content may be out of date?
And stop going off thread,thats my job!

Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel

Chemistry and process

In processor titrated water wash method