Biodiesel troubleshooting flow chart?

[mon]

I was just wondering does the wiki have a flow diagram for troubleshooting the biodiesel process.

Series of questions to come to and action the user can do to rectify the situation , such as jelly recovery, reprocessing with 2nd stage, emulsion in water wash... , redirecting the user to a specific wiki page, just people may not know to look for jelly when this is what they are stuck on..


Hopefully should make it easier to answer questions on the forum.

Thoughts would be good, was thinking of knocking one up in visio but didn't want to reinvent the wheel, if its been done.

[Julian]

Not been done on the wiki and I recon it's a great idea.  As you say, it could link to pages which give solutions. Where there are no solution pages yet a brief one could be given on the same page and expanded into a new page at a later date.

You could employ an image to make the elements of the flow diagram links.

[mon]

Had a quick go at my first thoughts needs additional input, I have attached the visio document for other to add to ,or add suggestions to this thread.


Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19730107/Troubleshooting%20flow%20diagram.png
Visio Document: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19730107/Troubleshooting%20flow%20diagram.vsd

Let me know what you think.

[Julian]

Looks pretty good so far.

You could mention a hot pan test and drying the oil.  I can't think of any other major ones at the moment (then it is late!), but there must be dozens of ways the process can go wrong.  How about a thread on the VOD requesting details of processing problems and how they were cured.

[mon]

Thanks Julian, I have started a thread as suggested

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26933

[Tony]

It's a good idea but possibly hard to implement.

For example, the flow chart has the 3/27 fail loop where more Methoxide is added and reacted.

There are two outcomes from reprocessing like this:
- 3/27 pass (harrah)
- 3/27 no change or little change (boo - heading for jelly - must be water in there) - in which case going around the loop again is probably a bad idea - it wasn't lack of catalyst that prevented completion.

Describing a "did reprocessing work?" path might be tricky in the grand scheme of the flow chart.

[Julian]

Thanks Julian, I have started a thread as suggested

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26933

Impressive response from the VOD members!

I still think the idea is worth perusing even if it's just a trouble shooting list linked to appropriate pages on the wiki.

[K.H]

Thanks Julian, I have started a thread as suggested

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26933

Impressive response from the VOD members!

I still think the idea is worth perusing even if it's just a trouble shooting list linked to appropriate pages on the wiki.

No surprise there then
Surely we can come up with enough examples between us?,shame to let it slide because of apathy!

[Julian]

I think we're all too good at it to have much experience of problems!  Other than not quite complete conversions, I've honestly only really had one bad batch since I started.  That was so soapy, if I took a sample by the time I'd filled the jam jar it had solidified.  The solution was to ditch the batch.

Only other issue has been, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, HMPE's, to which I've not found a solution.

A bit like standing up at an AA meeting and admitting to being an alcoholic ... Hello, I'm Julian and I've run some tests on water washing (looks down at the floor in embarrassment).  It helped at higher temperatures, but a couple of days at -3.5°C soon brought the little buggers out.

Mark of Heathrow area fame, may be a good guy to assist.  I think he get all sorts of oil and usually has good answers for those with processing problems.

[K.H]

Have you tried "wintron synergy" Julian? something i noticed when doing the winteriser testing
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=14224
i took all the samples down to -17 and made hmpe,s form in all the samples except the one dosed with synergy,i never took it any further as im not really a member of "Tonys winter club"
I could send you a sample if you want and if your really nice some synergy as well

[Tony]

HMPEs are odd little beggers, seem to form as it gets cold but then not re-melt until taken quite high in temperature (40C or more).

So this year I think I'll just keep them for summer, then when it's warm enough heat to 60 or so and then re-cool to get usable fuel out of it.

First year I kept them I ended up with a full 60l drum of HMPEs...