Author Topic: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.  (Read 10644 times)

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2014, 11:15:14 PM »
This is the thread I was referring to.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,995.msg11072.html#msg11072


Some really good data there it would be a shame not to have it available on the wiki.
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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2014, 11:40:09 AM »
An update after trying 3 batches using 7% pre-wash.

Pretty much got this nailed down now & am pleased with the results.

Yesterday's batch was 140 litres of disgusting, stinky crap that I have been saving over the winter, waiting for hot weather. Some liquid, some solid, some very solid, LOTS of bits of batter & other crap, and wet.

Heated & circulated, dropped out 5 litres of water which apparently wasn't all of it judging by the 1st stage conversion ratio, glyc washed with 18 litres.

16% methanol, 5.8gpl KOH, poor conversion with 45% drop out. Using same ratio of meth & KOH got a cloudy 100% conversion on stage 2.

Left the new glyc in & venturi'd in 10 litres of hot water for a 7%-ish pre wash, circulated for 15 mins & when dropping it out after waiting an hour I took a little more out than was strictly required to make sure I got all the soap. Doesn't really matter as I run all the water wash drop out through a settling Burco to recover any fuel for the next batch.

This seems to have worked well as 3 x 15 litre hot water washes @ 70-80 degrees later I had a crystal clear 50/50. The high temp also saves time & speeds up the drying stage when I get to it.

In the past I've been frustrated by having to do too many water washes, sometimes w. washing would take as long as every other part of the entire process combined. Now with this method I can make a complete batch in one day, albeit a long day if I use sh1te oil.

BTW, never had an emulsion (3 batches) & now do not introduce any acid or anything else to prevent one. It seems to work fine without acid.

Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2014, 07:20:51 PM »
Just fine tuning this a little bit.

Made a batch today & after stage 2 was completed I went straight to the pre-wash without waiting for the glyc to drop & without doing another 10/90. Turned the machine off at the end of stage 2 & immediately venturi'ed in about 10 litres. Figured I'd got the calcs right so the conversion was complete & there was no point waiting for glyc to drop when I was only going to mix everything up again.

Worked fine, no emulsion.

Just as a control I'll do a 10/90 tomorrow after I've finished the 4th & final water wash & dried it. My car would run on VO so it's not really a big deal either way.

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2014, 09:06:24 PM »
Well done!

It's gratifying when a plan comes trogether.
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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2014, 06:56:58 PM »
Anyone ever done 2 x 7% pre-washes on the same batch?

I did last night after making emulsion. It finally cleared this morning & I thought I've probably made a shit load of soap from all the acid so I'll just start again.

Seemed to work pretty well. 4 x 15 litre water washes later I had a 50/50 pass.

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2014, 09:05:52 PM »
Struggling to understand two 7% washes.

A 7% wash is done by adding water to the bio before the glycerin is settled and mixing for a period.  Glycerin and water are then settled and drained off.

Anything after that is simply a wash.

Chemistry isn't my strong point, but can you make soap with acid ... I thought it required a base.
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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2014, 09:11:11 PM »
Soz, didn't make that clear.

I drained everything that wasn't BD after the emulsion had disappeared, added some first stage glyc back in & 7% water & started the water wash cycle from the beginning, again.

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2014, 09:19:53 PM »
Ah, I see.

Unsurprisingly ... no I've never done that!

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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2014, 10:23:45 PM »
Never had an emulsion?

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2014, 10:28:55 PM »
Errrrr ... one or two!!
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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2014, 10:40:54 PM »
The last time I had an emulsion I didn't do 2 x 7% pre-washes & ended up doing about 14 water washes.

This, apart form the hiccup with the emulsion, was the normal amount of water washing. I may be wrong but I can only think it was the second pre-wash taking out the majority of the soap that made the difference.

Offline Julian

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2014, 04:37:40 PM »
Mark has proved the efficacy of a single prewash quite conclusively.

Perhaps similar tests should be done for a double wash, ie with soap tests before and after the washes.

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Offline neisel

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Re: 1st try at 7% pre-wash. 1 question.
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2014, 07:25:52 PM »
That would be interesting.