Finishing methods

[nigelb]

Brian has raised a very interesting point on Daves thread regarding his issues.

So here are the two popular scenario's:

1.Water washing
2. Demething/recovery and then bubbling the balance of meth to atmosphere.

There maybe an additional process step with drywash towers.

Brian has said that water washing is wasteful...even if using harvested rain water?!.. and is looking via the forum for a "non wasteful way" of finishing fuel.

The question is....what are the alternatives?

Are there any alternatives?

Water washing uses water.....bubbling after demeth liberates methanol to atmosphere. Both could be seen as wasteful.

What, if anything is the answer?

[Jamesrl]

Nige, if you're harvesting rain water don't worry, each 1/4" of rain produces in excess of 25 tons of water per acre or 57 tons per football pitch.

There's also a plus to rain water, it's acidic, carbonic I believe.

Forget to mention, harvested water would never have hit the ground as Brian suggests, it'd go straight into surface water drainage, carry on as you are.

[nigelb]

Nige, if you're harvesting rain water don't worry, each 1/4" of rain produces in excess of 25 tons of water per acre or 57 tons per football pitch.

There's also a plus to rain water, it's acidic, carbonic I believe.

I'm not worried Pops...but Brian, being an eco warrior, clearly is.

He does raise an interesting point though, no potential solutions, but a point well worth discussion.

[Tony]

My personal feeling is that water washing is a better way to guarantee good fuel quality, however demething/settling/drywashing can achieve the same thing - if you know what you're doing.

My personal twist on demeth and settling is gently pumped agitation (CH pump) - really seems to help with soap settling!

[nigelb]

My personal feeling is that water washing is a better way to guarantee good fuel quality, however demething/settling/drywashing can achieve the same thing - if you know what you're doing.

My personal twist on demeth and settling is gently pumped agitation (CH pump) - really seems to help with soap settling!

I agree with your first point Tony....and your second, although I wouldn't go there again. I wouldn't dare to tell anybody what to do (offer forward my fountain of knowledge, yes!) but tell someone what to do...no!

The question still remains....water washing with trace methanol going to the sewerage system with water washing or lberating methanol to atmosphere via bubbling...are there any viable, economical or environmental alternatives?

[Jamesrl]

The question still remains....water washing with trace methanol going to the sewerage system with water washing or lberating methanol to atmosphere via bubbling...are there any viable, economical or environmental alternatives?

A small percentage of methanol in grey water is not a problem, methanol is used to feed certain bacteria at the sewage plant.

Our effect on the supply and recycling of water is so miniscule in the scheme of things none of us should give it a second thought.

[K.H]

Its no where near as big an environmental issue as some of the veggy guys using new oil 

[Tony]

Anyone that demeths with a condenser gets the majority recovered for re-use anyway, so no waste to atmosphere.

A little meth out there is no problem anyway, it biodegrades in three days.  Even apples have methanol in (the older the apple, the more methanol!)

In terms of environmental impact the most damaging part is probably the carbon footprint from crude extraction from oil wells, fractional distillation to get the methanol, and then its transportation.

The tapwater/waste environmental argument is just pissing in the wind compared to that, so really it makes little difference which way you finish your fuel.

[Julian]

According to the Methanol Institute, methanol is used to reduce nitrates in waste water treatment, so perhaps we are doing the water companies a favor ... should we invoice them for our methanol or try and get an offset against our bills?

http://www.methanol.org/environment/wastewater-treatment.aspx

[willbuild]

maybe it helps dissolve those balls of fat we see in sewers!

[Jamesrl]

maybe it helps dissolve those balls of fat we see in sewers!

Fats/triglycerides are NOT soluble in methanol, that's why a 3/27, 10/90 works.

[Head Womble]

maybe it helps dissolve those balls of fat we see in sewers!

Fats/triglycerides are NOT soluble in methanol, that's why a 3/27, 10/90 works.

Surely the soap we wash down the drains helps, marginally at least.

[Jamesrl]

Surely the soap we wash down the drains helps, marginally at least.

Have you ever tried to clean a greasy surface with cold water even with washing up liquid in it, let alone solidified animal fats in a sewer with water trickling over it?

[Julian]

[Have you ever tried to clean a greasy surface with cold water ...

That's got to be the joke of the century, surely?

You've just asked Womble if he's ever tried to clean a surface ... have you seen the state of his shed?

[whatarascal]

Brian has raised a very interesting point on Daves thread regarding his issues.

So here are the two popular scenario's:

1.Water washing
2. Demething/recovery and then bubbling the balance of meth to atmosphere.

There maybe an additional process step with drywash towers.

Brian has said that water washing is wasteful...even if using harvested rain water?!.. and is looking via the forum for a "non wasteful way" of finishing fuel.

The question is....what are the alternatives?

Are there any alternatives?

Water washing uses water.....bubbling after demeth liberates methanol to atmosphere. Both could be seen as wasteful.

What, if anything is the answer?

I didn't mean to raise a point,I thought I asked how is a good way of removing the waxy flakey stuff,
It don't seem to settle but clings to the sides of the settling drum.
When this stuff is present it blocks my 1 micron filters I use.I do put jay cloths around filters but its a pain to have to keep changing cloths.
Perhaps it would be better to filter the fuel from the top of the settling drum via an anti siphon tube set near the bottom.
Leaving the flakey stuff"whatever it is"on the sides.
So how do you remove the waxy flakey stuff?