Author Topic: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.  (Read 24688 times)

Offline K.H

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2012, 09:31:32 PM »
I've been sent a PDF from Beru, with their flame plugs on it. Any one got any idea how I transfer it to here?
I downloaded "pdf to image" from here

http://www.softinterface.com/

Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2012, 09:37:41 PM »
Cheers Keith. I'll try it later. Internet is on a go slow.
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Offline Julian

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2012, 11:01:40 PM »
You could upload it to the wiki ... not the best thing to do normally as it will fill up Tony's server but as a one off it would work or, if you mail it to me I'll stick it on my web space.
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Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2012, 11:08:54 PM »
Cheers Julian, but it needs some editing. What I was trying to find was, which plugs could be run with an unpressurised tank, and which needed to be plumbed into the return.
I think the info is there, but its in German........

I will email a few more companys, and see if i can get more specific information out of them.
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Offline Tony

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2012, 11:54:03 PM »
You could upload it to the wiki ... not the best thing to do normally as it will fill up Tony's server but as a one off it would work or, if you mail it to me I'll stick it on my web space.

In theory that's OK now I've upgraded the drive from 20Gb to 160Gb, however it would make backups huge and no-one likes waiting for downloads!

Offline Julian

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 12:04:07 AM »
Cheers Julian, but it needs some editing. What I was trying to find was, which plugs could be run with an unpressurised tank, and which needed to be plumbed into the return.
I think the info is there, but its in German........

I will email a few more companys, and see if i can get more specific information out of them.

Plumbing them into the IP return sounds like an easy fix, but you'd have to have the engine turning over to get any fuel flow, which kind of defeats the object.

What about a little 12v peristaltic pump ... good pressure and very low flow.

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Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 12:55:33 AM »
Cheers Julian, but it needs some editing. What I was trying to find was, which plugs could be run with an unpressurised tank, and which needed to be plumbed into the return.
I think the info is there, but its in German........

I will email a few more companys, and see if i can get more specific information out of them.

Plumbing them into the IP return sounds like an easy fix, but you'd have to have the engine turning over to get any fuel flow, which kind of defeats the object.

What about a little 12v peristaltic pump ... good pressure and very low flow.

It looks as though most standard fitment ones in modern road vehicles are plumbed into the return. I totally agree, it takes around six seconds for them to fire, but from what I can gleen, some of them have up to a two minute burn, once the engine starts. This is done automatically, the driver wouldn't even know its happening.
The problem we have is that they most likely wont run on veg, so need a seperate tank of dino. It does seem as though there are plugs that only need a small head to run. I'm trying to find out the model numbers from the manufacturers.
Whether or not they will run on bio, I don't know. I intend to build a rig to test one, maybe bring it to the BBB, or if I get my hands on some bio, i'll do it before then.

Does anyone know what pressure the return is. In the data I have been sent, it gives a fuel consumption rate at 1.2 bar, so it seems reasonable to assume that that is where they are design to run.
They give part numbers for bi metal controlled valves, and solenoid controlled valves. I'm pressuming that the solenoid controlled valves are the ones that will run without being pressurised. I've had to run the words through google translate, so something could be going missing in translation. I'll email Lucas and another company tomorrow. See if I can get more sense out of them.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:00:06 AM by greasemonkey »
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Offline Julian

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012, 01:13:46 AM »
Logically both bi-metal and solenoid types should run on minimum head ... both, after all are, valves.  I'd have thought what would dictate the requirement for a pump is the size of opening through which the fuel has to pass.
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Offline Rotary-Motion

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2012, 06:13:01 AM »
you may find this really interesting

http://www.beru.com/download/produkte/TI01_en.pdf

i like the non fueled electrical AIR preheating plugs...

lots of charts if you can understand them too...

t6his may come in handy too a comprehensive listing of cars to there glow plugs flame plugs etc and serial number!

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Glow_plug__Contents_New_layout.pdf





« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:05:12 AM by Shaggy »

Offline Tony

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012, 08:14:07 PM »
That's interesting, all new to me.

Glow plugs on their own draw 40-45A (480-540W) which is comparable to a single one of those coil heaters.

Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012, 10:37:49 PM »
I quite like the look of the air heating plugs.
The flanges look like a good idea too.
This is what they say about them.

Here, a supplement to the electric preheating, the version
as flange or module solution. The band held in a frame
with lateral ceramic support is the heating element. The
advantage of the band is the better heat transfer to the air
flowing past. It has almost completely ousted the flame
start in commercial vehicle engines up to 10 l.


Sounds as though they are used along with the heating plug.

Still awaiting info off flame pug co.s
If I'd known what I know now, I might have been tempted to fit one of those coil plugs.
They look high drain, but that has got to be compared to the drain of a cold engine turning over and not firing.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 10:42:16 PM by greasemonkey »
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Offline CHUNDER

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2013, 12:03:12 AM »
Also known as KI GAS starting plug try looking for a KI GAS pump hand operated pump that srewed up and shut of fuel when not in use .

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VSCC-Austin-Seven-7-special-Riley-MG-Vintage-Supercharger-KI-Gas-Pump-/181099099251?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a2a58f473

Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 08:14:08 AM »
How does that work exactly Chunder? Does it inject excess fuel into the inlet manifold? Is it for a petrol, or diesel, or both. Had a quick google, and seems they were fitted to old warplanes.

Flame plug is going well BTW. One of the best things I've fitted. Takes a little longer to light than it was, but well worth the bother.
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Offline CHUNDER

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2013, 09:29:20 PM »
They were fited to ferguson 35 and later diesels they just pump fule to the heater plug when the engine has started the top of the piston scews into the housing 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ferguson-ki-gas-pump-and-tank-/281082716138?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item4171d5dfea

im shure you can find a pomp far cheaper
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 09:31:53 PM by CHUNDER »

Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Flame plug, also called a Thermo start.
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2013, 02:45:39 PM »
Nothing new under the sun. Never knew they existed.
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