Author Topic: Hi and advice for if there are any options to run bio on my diesel hob/heater  (Read 1807 times)

Offline user209392

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Hi people.

I have a diesel hob and heater which runs similar mechanically to the very popular chinese diesel heaters but just with a cook top on top. Look up diesel combihob (the chinese copycat type I bought) or wallas xc duo for the original name brand.

As there is quite a bit of information about diesel heaters running on bio with mixed success I thought the same would apply to my appliance.

Have not read anything conclusive about long term use though. Most are just proof of concept videos showing it is possible. David mcclukie on youtube said it works but it not advised due to clogging.

Can this be overcome?:

My main desire, besides eco friendliness and sustainability which are indeed important to me, to use bio is for peace of mind I am not inhaling carcinogenic compounds on a daily basis since it would be daily as I am living in the van full time and using heating almost daily in these colder months but cooking will be year round. Also despite the claims these things are completely closed chambers there is a smell during use indicating a minor leak and reading around this is said to be common.

I am going to be looking into using a fire resistant sealant to maybe quell the leaks but I thought attacked from another angle what about using bio.

I have bought a chinese knock off of the original name brand type wallas diesel stove. Now wallas state on their website that they officially support the use of hvo with their stove. I could not abide paying twice the price for just that though at 1800 quid. Even the chinese knock of is extoriontionately pricey at 1100 but I ran the numbers over time and still made sense to me compared to gas for many reasons but price evens out over a couple years. I am seeing though that this thing has quite a few design quality issues so using a bio fuel would make me feel better I am not huffing toxic fumes on a daily.

Since the official wallas state they run on hvo it must be doable. There is just the issue of clogging I think.

Any advice welcome on how I would set about finding a suitable bio fuel to run on it. It must be easily available otherwise it would defeat the purpose of using diesel as a main fuel source over gas since I chose diesel due to easy access at pumps. I don't mind having to self cook stuff as I am committed to off grid living and self sufficiency now. I would even not mind paying marginally more per litre than diesel if it means running a cleaner fuel day to day.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2024, 07:04:44 AM by user209392 »

Offline Keef

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Firstly HVO is a different beast to Biodiesel and I don't think it is achievable at home but if you are able to purchase HVO then it should be a direct replacement for diesel.


Have you thought of running your heater on a blend of cooking oil and diesel?
My son runs a Chinese heater on a blend and it runs ok but he has no end of problems when he tries to run it on 100% cooking oil and has had to strip it down and clean it many times as a result.
We don't make Biodiesel so have no experience of how they run on that but I think dgs on this forum has?

Offline user209392

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Firstly HVO is a different beast to Biodiesel and I don't think it is achievable at home but if you are able to purchase HVO then it should be a direct replacement for diesel.


Have you thought of running your heater on a blend of cooking oil and diesel?
My son runs a Chinese heater on a blend and it runs ok but he has no end of problems when he tries to run it on 100% cooking oil and has had to strip it down and clean it many times as a result.
We don't make Biodiesel so have no experience of how they run on that but I think dgs on this forum has?

Haven't had any thoughts yet except initial idea to try cleaner alternatives. Do not understand much about the pros and cons of each different type of fuel which may be possible to use yet which is why I joined this forum to maybe get a better idea.

Offline Keef

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« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 09:27:58 AM by Keef »

Offline dgs

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Hi user 209392, I have 2x chinese heaters and have experimented a little using blended fuels.

I use each heater on a very low setting (one is inside a greenhouse inside my large polytunnel keeping sensitive plants warm over Winter)

When I tried a 30% bio blend in Kero it carboned up after a few hours, however I'm sure the higher setting the heater is working on the more chance of it working successfully.

Another idea is to twin tank it, start and stop on kero, then change over tanks, run with a blend suitable for the throttle setting you want.

Another idea is (although not recommended) they love petrol blends. i had success on all settings with a 50/50 blend of petrol/diesel (misfuel) but find this isn't easy to obtain.
FOC water tests by Sandy brae or Karl Fischer for forum members.

Offline user209392

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Thanks for the information. Hmm running on 30% would hardly seem worth it for the intended health benefits.

For me I run on highest setting pretty much 100% of the time so perhaps that would work in my favour.

Is hvo going to be different than the blends you mentioned below? Still have to do some reading to figure out the different terms.

Is 100% bio as good as diesel if it was made right or will still gel up easier making it poor choice for winter when the heating is wanted most? As you say perhaps diesel as a primer then over to another.

Seems it will require quite some testing and no general principles have been deduced yet except what not to run.

By the way why are biofuels not available at consumer level and the only sites I see are for huge trade quantities? We can for instance easily buy bioethanol by the litre (although not cheap!) why not biodiesel? Some stupid bureaucratic law I guess prohibiting anything sane like usual.

Hi user 209392, I have 2x chinese heaters and have experimented a little using blended fuels.

I use each heater on a very low setting (one is inside a greenhouse inside my large polytunnel keeping sensitive plants warm over Winter)

When I tried a 30% bio blend in Kero it carboned up after a few hours, however I'm sure the higher setting the heater is working on the more chance of it working successfully.

Another idea is to twin tank it, start and stop on kero, then change over tanks, run with a blend suitable for the throttle setting you want.

Another idea is (although not recommended) they love petrol blends. i had success on all settings with a 50/50 blend of petrol/diesel (misfuel) but find this isn't easy to obtain.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 07:40:47 AM by user209392 »

Offline countrypaul

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Hi user 209392,

Be very careful if you are assumng that burning a biofuel will have health benefits over other fuels especially in a burner that is not specifically designed for tem. In simple terms the longer the carbon chain is in the fuel you are burning the more difficult it is to get clean burn and the higher the likelyhood of unwanted combustion products including carcinogens.  The cleanest, most readily available and easiest to burn is methane (natural gas), all oils (and alkane gases) will give off a certain amount of carginogenic compounds, in some cases pm2.5s and pm10s, in other cases very much more concerning compounds.

If you really want to provide heat without producing any carcinogenic compounds then burning anything is not the way to go, use electricity preferably from a suitable source.

You also should bear in  mind that frying, or even roasting food can abd does produce carcinogens.

Offline user209392

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Hi user 209392,

Be very careful if you are assumng that burning a biofuel will have health benefits over other fuels especially in a burner that is not specifically designed for tem. In simple terms the longer the carbon chain is in the fuel you are burning the more difficult it is to get clean burn and the higher the likelyhood of unwanted combustion products including carcinogens.  The cleanest, most readily available and easiest to burn is methane (natural gas), all oils (and alkane gases) will give off a certain amount of carginogenic compounds, in some cases pm2.5s and pm10s, in other cases very much more concerning compounds.

If you really want to provide heat without producing any carcinogenic compounds then burning anything is not the way to go, use electricity preferably from a suitable source.

You also should bear in  mind that frying, or even roasting food can abd does produce carcinogens.

Indeed I am not really aware of the actual risks of each but I just know everyone says how bad diesel is for you. Also wood.

I have even read now though, despite being purported to be cleaner, gas is also bad for you due to benzene. So does it all work out about the same apart from electrical cooking?

Surely biofuel is better? I thought I read it burns 90+% cleaner?

Of course electric is the way to go but I do not have that luxury at the moment living out of a van.

My plan is to buy land and I could then maybe use solar to cook but in the meantime I must heat and eat.

Although when I get land I am questioning if I could just go back to nature and just use wood as my fuel source. I know wood is bad for you too but you can get good stoves that limit the fumes can't you.

So maybe you could clear up the relative risk of inhaling some small diesel fumes expelled by tiny leaks in the heater/hob. Is it worse than using a wood fire for instance. Also is it worse than living in a city centre where you would passively inhale car fumes every day when out and about walking? I have moved from the city to the country so maybe it would work out the similar there?

As mentioned I am going to work on plugging those gaps which may be leaking fumes on the appliance but I am wondering just how bad for me they are in the meantime/if I don't get them 100% which I doubt is possible.

Mechanics must be inhaling fumes day after day for most of their working lives. Are they known to have much higher rates of cancer and lower life expectancy? Just trying to get a handle on what the actual increased risk is.

Offline countrypaul

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I believe diesel and other petroleum products contain benzene and other aromatic compunds like toluene and xylene at very low levels. Most such products are not a single chemical compound but contain a mixture with a variety of compound that distill within a given temperature range. Effort is made to minimise what is in those products, for example, sulphur content in diesel is now much lower than it used to be, terta-ethyl lead is onger in petrol (admittdly this was added rather than being present initially).

The factor that will make most difference to what is produced when burning a fuel, regardless of wlhether it is gas, liquid or solid is how cleanly it is burnt. Burning it slowly in a high oxygen content and at high temperatur will minimise organic compounds produced with most carbon then coming out as CO2, but we have all seen diesel wagons emitting plumes of black smoke, or jet aircraft taking off leaving multiple plumes if smoke. One problem with burning at a high temperature with plenty of air is that whilst most of the carbon will be converted to CO2, the high temperaure will also result in more nitogen oxides being produced which are also not good for health.

To ensure the minmum amount of toxic compounds are emitted, the burner needs to be serviced regulaly and tested for emissions, it also needs an adequate air supply and all exhaust should be to outside. If you are burning anything indoors without adequate ventillation the  amount of toxic compound produced will be significantly higher that it should be. You referred to burning natural gas as producing benzene - probably from a US report about a survey of 80+ homes in california, that same survey also highlighted the issue of adequate ventillation.  Strangely, that paper indicates induction hobs producing no benzene but what I think they said was electric thermal coil did - not sure what they meant as if they meant normal resstive heating elements where did the caron come from?

You refer to biofuel being better and having read it burns 90% cleaner - can I ask where? It an internal combustion engine it has been shown that biodiesel can produce lower levels of soot and carbon monoxide, but it does result often in higher levels of nitrogen oxides.  But burning inside an engine with excess air and high temperature and pressure can have very different results to burning at atmospheric pressure and lowish tempertures as with a hob.  A diesel engine relies on the high pressue and temperture to trigger combustion not a spark of naked flame.

If you need to burn something to keep you warm, it would be better to have that unit outside of your living space. Oil boilers, for example, often come as outside models so that risk form fumes indoors is significantly reduced. Wood chip boilers likewise are ofen designed to be in an outbuilding (for multiple reasons though).
Even in vehicles the engine is outside of the passenger space - or at least well separated (ships for example).

I don't think you can work on generalisations about whether the fumes from your leaking heater/hob are worse or better than burning wood would be, there are just too many variables. You would need to measure both approaches and compare the results.  I know some results of places with Wood burning found that the rooms with the burners were significantly worse than levels permitted outside, I would expect the same might occur with your heater/hob, but the main problem is ventillation in all these situations - again move the combustion out of the living space makes a huge improvement.

As to your question about mechanics, I dont know the answer, but assuming you are referring to those working on cars, vans etc. most of their work is not done with the engine running, and when the engine is running they should be using an exhaust gas extract system even if it is a simple out the door exhaust hose. Back to ventillation again!




Offline user209392

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Well the diesel heaters, including mine, I am talking about are designed to have separate combustion chamber which doesn't enter the cab with intake and exhaust both piped outside. That is the design but the issue is some minor leaking is occurring and wanting to know just how bad that may be.

Rather than making comparison of relative risk to certain job types maybe a better question to ask is what device I could use to measure the toxic emissions in my van? Would such a tool be readily available to the public and at an affordable price? I only know about carbon monoxide monitors which will not detect other nasties you have mentioned above. I have seen a youtube video where a chap uses a monitor for other stuff but not looked into what he used or general availability.

I believe diesel and other petroleum products contain benzene and other aromatic compunds like toluene and xylene at very low levels. Most such products are not a single chemical compound but contain a mixture with a variety of compound that distill within a given temperature range. Effort is made to minimise what is in those products, for example, sulphur content in diesel is now much lower than it used to be, terta-ethyl lead is onger in petrol (admittdly this was added rather than being present initially).

The factor that will make most difference to what is produced when burning a fuel, regardless of wlhether it is gas, liquid or solid is how cleanly it is burnt. Burning it slowly in a high oxygen content and at high temperatur will minimise organic compounds produced with most carbon then coming out as CO2, but we have all seen diesel wagons emitting plumes of black smoke, or jet aircraft taking off leaving multiple plumes if smoke. One problem with burning at a high temperature with plenty of air is that whilst most of the carbon will be converted to CO2, the high temperaure will also result in more nitogen oxides being produced which are also not good for health.

To ensure the minmum amount of toxic compounds are emitted, the burner needs to be serviced regulaly and tested for emissions, it also needs an adequate air supply and all exhaust should be to outside. If you are burning anything indoors without adequate ventillation the  amount of toxic compound produced will be significantly higher that it should be. You referred to burning natural gas as producing benzene - probably from a US report about a survey of 80+ homes in california, that same survey also highlighted the issue of adequate ventillation.  Strangely, that paper indicates induction hobs producing no benzene but what I think they said was electric thermal coil did - not sure what they meant as if they meant normal resstive heating elements where did the caron come from?

You refer to biofuel being better and having read it burns 90% cleaner - can I ask where? It an internal combustion engine it has been shown that biodiesel can produce lower levels of soot and carbon monoxide, but it does result often in higher levels of nitrogen oxides.  But burning inside an engine with excess air and high temperature and pressure can have very different results to burning at atmospheric pressure and lowish tempertures as with a hob.  A diesel engine relies on the high pressue and temperture to trigger combustion not a spark of naked flame.

If you need to burn something to keep you warm, it would be better to have that unit outside of your living space. Oil boilers, for example, often come as outside models so that risk form fumes indoors is significantly reduced. Wood chip boilers likewise are ofen designed to be in an outbuilding (for multiple reasons though).
Even in vehicles the engine is outside of the passenger space - or at least well separated (ships for example).

I don't think you can work on generalisations about whether the fumes from your leaking heater/hob are worse or better than burning wood would be, there are just too many variables. You would need to measure both approaches and compare the results.  I know some results of places with Wood burning found that the rooms with the burners were significantly worse than levels permitted outside, I would expect the same might occur with your heater/hob, but the main problem is ventillation in all these situations - again move the combustion out of the living space makes a huge improvement.

As to your question about mechanics, I dont know the answer, but assuming you are referring to those working on cars, vans etc. most of their work is not done with the engine running, and when the engine is running they should be using an exhaust gas extract system even if it is a simple out the door exhaust hose. Back to ventillation again!

Offline countrypaul

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This may of interest to you: https://howtomechatronics.com/projects/diy-air-quality-monitor-pm2-5-co2-voc-ozone-temp-hum-arduino-meter/

Or for a simpler option: https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/vindriktning-air-quality-sensor-80515910/     although it does less but it can be easily hacked to display near real time data, issue warnings etc.

If you are burning things then I would suggest you start with CO monitoring, then perhaps the pm10/pm2.5. It then depends on how far you want to go, so maybe VOC.

Offline user209392

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This may of interest to you: https://howtomechatronics.com/projects/diy-air-quality-monitor-pm2-5-co2-voc-ozone-temp-hum-arduino-meter/

Or for a simpler option: https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/vindriktning-air-quality-sensor-80515910/     although it does less but it can be easily hacked to display near real time data, issue warnings etc.

If you are burning things then I would suggest you start with CO monitoring, then perhaps the pm10/pm2.5. It then depends on how far you want to go, so maybe VOC.

Interesting thanks. Although I am not averse to tinkering having been a coder for quite some years I am not looking for something so involved right now so an out of the box device would suit better.

Yes I already have a CO monitor which I think I mentioned. I want to know what else might be in the air.

Would the VOC monitor be a one stop shop for all common nasties that may be produced by diesel that would be hazardous to health? They don't look cheap at the 200 to start but one cannot put a price on health as they say. If it would definitely be the one to use I think I could plump for that for peace of mind.

Offline countrypaul

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A VOC monitor is for volatile organic compounds, that would not normally include all PM2.5/10 and of course not all VOCs are necessarily hazardous to health.
With a PM10/2.5 monitor as low as £15 I would think you might want to start with one of those. The two monitors are for different things so it is not one or the other but both that may be wanted for reassurance (or concern!).

If you look on, for example, Amazon, there are Air Quality Monitors that include VOCs as well as PM2.5/PM10 for about haf the price you have found, I cannot comment on how accurate they are or whether they will meet your needs.

Offline user209392

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A VOC monitor is for volatile organic compounds, that would not normally include all PM2.5/10 and of course not all VOCs are necessarily hazardous to health.
With a PM10/2.5 monitor as low as £15 I would think you might want to start with one of those. The two monitors are for different things so it is not one or the other but both that may be wanted for reassurance (or concern!).

If you look on, for example, Amazon, there are Air Quality Monitors that include VOCs as well as PM2.5/PM10 for about haf the price you have found, I cannot comment on how accurate they are or whether they will meet your needs.

Hmm well thinking about it it doesn't have to monitor all does it as if it monitors some of the main ones you can infer that if it picks up those then other ones would be being emitted too and likewise if able to quell them through sealing efforts then retake the readings one could assume both those that are and aren't monitored will be reduced yet the ones that are monitored allow a benchmark of progress.

Not foolproof of course since everything will have different levels to be considered harmful but we are talking tiny amounts of a minor leak so should be good enough eh? Also the smell test and if I am able to curb the smell then I would like to think that is a good indicator as diesel stinks and the monitors are just another string to the bow.

Again considering relative risk, it should not be worse than driving on a motorway stuck in traffic should it, which many people do most days for much of their lives.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 06:08:42 AM by user209392 »

Offline countrypaul

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A VOC monitor is for volatile organic compounds, that would not normally include all PM2.5/10 and of course not all VOCs are necessarily hazardous to health.
With a PM10/2.5 monitor as low as £15 I would think you might want to start with one of those. The two monitors are for different things so it is not one or the other but both that may be wanted for reassurance (or concern!).

If you look on, for example, Amazon, there are Air Quality Monitors that include VOCs as well as PM2.5/PM10 for about haf the price you have found, I cannot comment on how accurate they are or whether they will meet your needs.

Hmm well thinking about it it doesn't have to monitor all does it as if it monitors some of the main ones you can infer that if it picks up those then other ones would be being emitted too and likewise if able to quell them through sealing efforts then retake the readings one could assume both those that are and aren't monitored will be reduced yet the ones that are monitored allow a benchmark of progress.

Not foolproof of course since everything will have different levels to be considered harmful but we are talking tiny amounts of a minor leak so should be good enough eh? Also the smell test and if I am able to curb the smell then I would like to think that is a good indicator as diesel stinks and the monitors are just another string to the bow.

Again considering relative risk, it should not be worse than driving on a motorway stuck in traffic should it, which many people do most days for much of their lives.

Generaly true that if you reduce the levels of one pollutant by blocking the leaks, the others will also be reduced. You need to measure something to ensure that you have benefitted from sealing each leak.

Switching from diesel to bio/diesel mix would likely change the levels of pollutants but how much and which way might not be obvious.  One thing to take into account, for example, is the souce of oil for the bio and the quality of the final product. If for, for example, the bio is incompletely reacted and the incompletely washed and filtered it could still have free glycerol present in which case during combustion Acrolein would not be unexpected as a combustion product. Not the sort of VOC you want around!