Author Topic: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment  (Read 13989 times)

Offline Tony

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Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« on: July 19, 2012, 11:25:26 AM »
There seems to be a lot of noise in the community regarding avoiding non-metal impellers on biodiesel processors.  But the original GL design used a CH pump which had plastic impellers, and a lot a commercial processors use vane pumps which often have synthetic vane materials.

Mark is planning on using his multistager with PPO components on his rig.  I've got a 100lpm pump with PPO impeller that will fit my rig so I'm also going to give it a whirl.

This one:

http://www.speroni.it/public/en/prodotto_dett.php?id=43

Liquid temperature up to 60°C according to the website but datasheet says 90C - we will see :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noryl

"Noryl is a blend of polyphenylene oxide (PPO) and polystyrene (PS) that was developed by General Electric Plastics in 1966"

"Noryl is stable in boiling water. The precise value of the transition depends on the exact composition of the grade being used. There is a smooth linear relation between weight content of polystyrene and the Tg of the blend."

Debating whether to stay under the 90C or take it up to 105C (they must allow some margin for manufacturing variance surely?) - if it survives this then good - if it fails then at least we'll have conclusive evidence.  The pump came to me as a cheapy because it was seized - I don't mind sacrificing it in the name of experimentation.

I'm going to purchase a couple of extra 1" BSP to 28mm pipe adapters so the pumps can be swapped quickly in the case of failure.

Of course I'll take before and after photos of the impeller.

Wish me luck!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 11:38:43 AM by tony »

Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 12:35:03 PM »
Flippin' £10.79 for 2x 1" BSP male to 28mm compression :o  I feel like I've been robbed!

Offline Head Womble

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 12:51:17 PM »
As Tony has said I'm going to swap my pump over the the PZ5 I had at chugs bash (the one running the eductor we demoed).

This wont be done quite yet as I need to get my holiday fuel done this week, but some time mid august I'll swap it over and do some testing.
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Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 01:01:04 PM »
Found the datasheet for Mark's pump Edit: I see Mark also PM'd me the same link - great minds and all that!

http://www.radacontrols.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/p2710_6.pdf

Again, Noryl, but this one is only rated to 70C.  Or so they say :)

The datasheet says "group showering" which I'm glad we never got into at the BBB...  :o
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 01:12:41 PM by tony »

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 01:09:53 PM »


The datasheet says "group showering" which I'm glad we never got into at the BBB...  :o

We did, all weekend it was raining.
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Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 01:14:48 PM »
Hmm, good point...

By the way - how hot do you take your batches Mark?  (Thinking of what your pump will be tested against).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 01:16:40 PM by tony »

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 01:19:54 PM »
Normally only up the 90° when demething,
but I have taken it up to 105° when dewatering some really bad oil (and my pipe lagging started to melt  :o ).
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Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 08:31:17 PM »
Pump is now fitted and tested to 3 bar.  Heating some oil for it to dewater now.

It does sound like it's suffering bearing failure so I'll give it a few batchs of thrashing and if the impeller survives I'll treat it to some new bearings.

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 10:28:40 PM »
Tony you have jincksed my pump, it bloue it's shaft seal today  >:(
I was dewatering at 95°C, just as it was comming to an end oil started ot pour out.

So I've now been forced to swap the pumps over tonight as I need to get fuel done for my hols.

Here it is bodged into the system



Note the blocks of wood holding it up and the stressed pipework, but at least it's not leaking.
It's a lot louder than my old one so I'll not be able to do my late night reacting for a while.

Lets see how long these PPO pumps last.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 10:30:37 PM by mark »
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Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 01:00:16 AM »
Mine is louder too. Been dewatering oil at 105c no problem - so far!

Sorry to hear about the demise of your pump seal...

Offline Head Womble

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 10:28:35 AM »
Have you done a reaction with yours yet ?
Mine is doing one now.

I'll have a look at changing the seal as at the mo I have no spare pump  :-\
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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 06:42:48 PM »
Not done a reaction yet - probably tues/wed at this rate.

Let me know if yours survives the Methoxide :)

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2012, 07:44:40 PM »
Pump survived the methoxide, but the batch whent T's up.
I've been having problems for a while but the last two batches turned into jelly in the first stage of a two stage non titration.

I've got a lot of thinking to do to work out what's going wrong.
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Offline Tony

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2012, 09:21:20 PM »
Presumably that can only ever be caused by water - how are you drying the oil?

Also I remember you saying you're taking the Methanol %age quite low - Methanol itself helps prevent emulsion, so perhaps lowing it where water was present before increases the risk?

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Re: Experimenting with PPO impellers on biodiesel equipment
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2012, 10:24:32 PM »
Recently I've gone back to 20%, I was down to 16% just to see how far I could push it.
But as I WBD I didn't see the point in trying to skin a fart any more.

I'm starting a thread on VOD about my reaction problems.
Skoda Yeti L&K 2L TDI 150 CR DPF Adblue, running pimp diesel.
VW Golf SV 1.4 TSI DSG.