Author Topic: New to the Forum and to Biodesiel Production (Read 19355 times)

Mark2256 · « **on:** February 25, 2018, 08:30:10 PM »

Hello to Everyone and a special thanks to DGS, Dave for recommending this forum.

I am about to start making my first test batch of Biodesiel this week. I have been researching the process and feel I have a fair understanding of the process and the DANGERS involved.

I will be going round to see a neighbour this week as he works for or owns a waiste oil company so I am hoping to obtain a supply of good used cooking oil.

I also have to consider either building my own reactor or purchasing a used one, and whether to use steel or plastic, direct or indirect heating for the oil. I am looking to product about 170 litres every 2 months but more if needed.

Any advise please buget is very tight.

Kind Regards

Mark

Tony · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2018, 10:17:02 PM »

Hiya Mark and welcome.

Plastic is best avoided if you can - easiest is an old copper hot water cylinder, depending on how handy you are with plumbing!

That or an old steel drum with tank connectors. The hard part with that is fitting a heating element (of course, usually built into a copper cylinder).

Mark2256 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2018, 11:42:03 PM »

Hello Tony

Thank You for the reply, Either way a used 45 gallon Oil drum or a copper hot water tank have thier problems, so I was thinking of using an external heater to heat water circulating in an enclosed system, copper water tanks tend to have the emmersion heater mounted in the top. Steel rusts and stainless steel is out of my price range.

So I am thinking a 45gal oil drum modified for conical base, drums are cheap enough

Kind Regards

Mark

Julian · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:30:33 AM »

Hi Mark

Welcome to the wiki and forum.

If you use a copper water cylinder it's normal to use it up-side-down. That way the heater is in the right place and you have a ready made cone bottom ... not the best cone bottom, but a cone bottom none the less. It's also pre insulated.

Use a short immersion heater so there's less likelihood of the heater becoming exposed should the tank level drop for any reason.

Tony did a good page on copper tanks on the wiki ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Hot_water_cylinders

Neisel (Neil) (another member on here) and myself are possibly looking to buy some chemicals from a chap about 30 miles from you who's packing up bio production. I'll probably be talking to him tomorrow evening and I can ask if he's looking to sell his processor ... Neil advised it was broken, but a repair may be easier than starting from scratch. He also has a large quantity of oil to get rid of ... let me know if you're interested and I'll ask when I phone.

dgs · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2018, 12:56:21 PM »

Hi Mark, Welcome to Biopowered, nice to see you have made the move from infopop. I've just sent you a pm on there explaining that hardly anyone here in the UK titrates any longer. We mostly use 10/90 dropout tubes and a 2 stage process which is a much more accurate and simpler method than titrating.

Just ask any questions you have on here.

These are the tubes, contact neisel if you want one, Dave.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1504.msg17642.html#msg17642

Mark2256 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2018, 10:17:56 PM »

Hello Julian Thank You for the reply I will have see what I can find in the way of a good used copper cylinder thier are some on Ebay but are to far away from Eastbourne. So an ad on Eastbourne, Bexhill, Lewis and Brighton Freegle may produce something.

Hi Dave I will have to waite a couple of weeks to get the 10/90 tube as I have just had to payout for a part for my wifes mobility scooter. So I will try 1 batch useing Titration. I do have 2 small batches of used cooking oil saved from home 1 is 3.6ltrs veg oil and other is 3.8 ltrs of used sunflower oil. I have also been trying to sorce a supply of used oil from some local businesses but they are all selling thier oil for betweet £5 and £6 for a 20 litre drum it is then exported.

Kind Regards to Both of you

Mark

dgs · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2018, 10:33:24 PM »

Hi mark, no worries, just advance at your own pace, there is a lot to learn. It really short-cuts the learning curve if you visit someone local to you that has been making bio for a while.

dgs · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2018, 03:03:12 PM »

Hi mark, saw your pm. Everything is 'above board' on here so I will reply on the main forum (there are several in infopop that poo poo the 2 stage no titration method which is why I kept quiet on there)

Here are a couple of links;

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/3/27_test

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Two_stage_process_with_no_titration

Trouble with titrating is if you don't get it correct 1st time then you can end up with unconverted oil after conducting a 3/27 or 5/45 or 10/90 test (they are basically all the same test but as the 10/90 uses more sample it is the most accurate) in which case you have to use the result of the dropout test to calculate the chemicals for the next stage, so you may just as well use this result in the 1st place without titration. Once you have done a reaction you cannot re-titrate as the crude bio will be alkaline.

Just as a ps to this post, I used to do titrations for a living when I worked at ICI. I have never thought much of the waste oil titration for ffa's. The average colour of wvo doesn't help, making the mix with ipa quite murky. This coupled with a very wide endpoint, together with a fading endpoint makes these titrations more of an approximation than an accurate test. IMO.

Nearly forgot- on higher titrating oils the calculation of base + titration is not correct. After a titration of around 4 a more accurate calculation is base + titration x 1.2 The liberated water on higher titrating oils will increase the amount of chemicals required exponentially.

Mark2256 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2018, 11:30:35 AM »

Hi All

Well I decided to go for it and make a 3.5 litre batch using some used vegi oil I have have for months. Here is my first attempt?

dgs · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2018, 12:39:35 PM »

Well done Mark, you have got good separation there.

Mark2256 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2018, 02:32:19 PM »

Here's a test sample of unwashed Biodiesel using 50/50 soap test

Mark2256 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2018, 02:54:29 PM »

A question Do I syphon the Biodiesel of the Glyserol and then wash or do I wash as is for the first wash?

dgs · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2018, 03:24:57 PM »

Quote from: Mark2256 on March 03, 2018, 02:32:19 PM

Here's a test sample of unwashed Biodiesel using 50/50 soap test

Considering that is your crude bio then that isn't bad at all. You can't really do an accurate 50/50 until you have either de-methed by bubbling and settling or water washed.

Regard this 50/50 as your 1st water wash (on a small scale) try and separate the bio on the top and go again with the test. Repeat until the water layer is clear, the resultant bio would need drying to use it.

Do not try and wash the bio with the glycerol present, separate the bio first.

I don't think you have produced much soap with this small batch, otherwise your 50/50 would be total emulsion. Probably the reaction is slighty incomplete (producing less soap- this is where your 10/90 dropout tube is useful)

For a 1st go I think you have done really well.

Mark2256 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2018, 09:49:31 PM »

Thank You Dave for the replies and encouragement.

Here is a 50/50 test after first wash.

dgs · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2018, 10:53:07 PM »

That's good, see how much clearer the water layer is. Keep washing until it is totally clear. (it usually takes 4 to 5 washes) Don't worry that the bio layer is cloudy, it always is during and after water washing.

Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel

Biodiesel equipment

New to the Forum and to Biodesiel Production