Author Topic: Processor pressure switch  (Read 15025 times)

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Processor pressure switch
« on: May 07, 2012, 08:29:05 PM »
Couple of questions on the pressure switch as i need to get around to fitting one
i assume the pipe inside has to go down to at least the imm elements? and is there any particular reason for the outside pipe been 22mm?

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 09:48:04 PM »
I've fitted a WMPS to my processor, but I'm not very impressed with the way it operates and haven't bothered to wire it up.

If I was starting again from scratch, I'd go for a float switch.

However, 15mm should be fine.  If you file/turn off the stop in a 15mm fitting and use a couple of 'O' rings in place of the olive, you can make it adjustable (assuming your pipe enters from the top of the tank).
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 09:56:00 PM »
Blast,ive put a socket on the side high up,it would be easy to fit a float switch tho

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 10:06:54 PM »
What size is the socket?
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 10:13:53 PM »
1/2"

The 3/4" sockets / sintered exhausts,do they need a non return or anything on them to stop the bio seeping out?

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 01:59:31 AM »
Ooo, if it's quite a long socket then you'll need a very slow bend on the 15mm pipe to get it in!

Don't know if it's a "BRTP" dewatering devise, I believe others are doing it.  On mine the tank penetration is pretty much where yours is.  From there I ran a 15mm pipe (although for dewatering there's no reason why it can't be smaller, *but see the note below) via an elbow up vertically to a point higher than the maximum fill level and stuck the needle valve on the end.  After the valve use small bore plastic.

The little compressor I use has no tank, just a relief valve, so I tend to close the needle valve whilst it's still running to trap air in the pipe, then turn the compressor off.  With the piping arrangement above, it shouldn't be a problem if bio/oil runs back up the pipe anyway, it can't go anywhere and will get blown back out next time it's used.


* Just a little hesitant to publicise the idea too widely, because if used for demething I'm sure it'll create a flammable atmosphere within the processor along with the likely hood of escaping fumes.  Added to which, small bore pipe work will increase the velocity of the air and just possibly give rise to static, this, coupled with the flammable atmosphere could be rather risky.

Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline Tony

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 5108
  • Fo' shizzle, biodizzle
    • Southampton Waste Oil Collection
  • Location: Southampton
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 10:51:57 AM »
Keith the 22m bit is unimportant, use what you've got.  Funnily enough I recently had a conversation with mark about using brake pipe (narrow bore) as the sense tube but we think it might need 12mm or 15mm to get the pressure to trip the switch.

We think that the wider the bore in the liquid the sooner the switch will trip as the liquid rises (less tube immersed).  It might work with smaller bore but you'd have to have it deeper to get the switch to trip, if you see what I mean?

I'm planning on putting mine through a fitting on the very top so the tube drops vertically into the processor for adjustment purposes.  And also doing the same with another tube for Julian's demeth booster (but only using a fish tank pump for the air suppply.  But now Julian has me worried about flammable atmosphere and static....

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 01:27:54 PM »
In theory you could comfortably use a very small bore pipe, you are only looking at a minute flow, so friction losses will be just about nonexistent.  BUT the danger I perceive would be the pipe becoming blocked.  Something like a brake pipe could quite well end up with a solidified drip of glycerol blocking the end, or crud simply entering the pipe and getting stuck.  What ever way you look at it the head inside the pipe will be the same if the pipe is 3mm or 300mm diameter.

Could you weld a vertical socket to the lid?  Save messing up the nice paint job on the tank.  The lid could still be removable as once above the fill level, you can use small bore plastic hose to connect to the pressure switch.

With regards to in-processor bubbling, I don't want to raise a scare, I'm just trying to err on the side of caution.  The statement comes from the time I was working on Inert Gas systems in the marine industry.  In the late 60's early 70's several oil tanker fitted with these systems suffered catastrophic loss and the only explanation anyone could come up with was gas being supplied to the cargo tanks at too greater velocity, causing static.  After this design parameters were changed to limit the velocity of gas in the entire system, but I can remember what the limit was.

I've also had static shocks when using a Henry to suck up brick dust and small, general building debris.  however, both these instances are very different to what we are doing in the processor.  The Henry scenario is a plastic pipe with debris and the IG system was handling many thousands of cubic meters in pipe work up to 30 inches diameter.

I've used the idea for many months with no ill effect, other than the twin PD cant cope with the throughput and it's very easy to emit Methanol fumes from the vent.  I can imagine people not fully understanding what they are doing, stuffing a full flow air supply into the processor with possible static dangers, emitting vast amounts of fumes with neighbours complaining to the Authorities and reflecting on all home brewers.

GL's design is beautiful in it's simplicity and safety and I don't really want to promote anything that is a retrograde step in those respects.

Keith and I have been looking at coalescing filters (bet Keith is spending all his time on the new processor and not coalescing filters!) but I've only got as far as putting a sintered exhaust silencer on the vent and over supplying with air.  This worked to a degree, roughly doubling the liquid condensate from the vent, but fumes were still snifable in the vicinity.

As a side note, I've made a rig to try the idea on wet bio, but my feeling is that coalescing filter are only good for free water and won't be effective on mixtures or emulsions ... still only one way to find out.  I'll post the results once I've run the test.

Keith, I've found a good source of fine aluminium mesh.  If you are taking out any kitchens, have a look at the filter in the cooker hood.  The one I took apart comprised several layers of fine Al mesh sandwiched between two courser layers.

This is getting rather lengthy, sorry, but back to the in processor bubbling ... if you are going to try it, keep the pipe work large and the air flow low. I did experiment with my aquarium pump when I first tried the idea, but it's really weedy and appeared to make no difference at all.  The compressor I'm using is a small diaphragm jobbie which can just be seen, bottom right, in this photo http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Simple_fat_melting_tank.jpg  Unfortunately there's no rating plate on it but as a workshop compressor it would be a complete waste of time, the flow is so low.

Currently I'm using a sintered brass exhaust silencer to introduce the air, but I'm not convinced that it's the most effective method.  At full tilt (adjusted on the needle valve) and when drying oil, you can hear a "gluging" sound within the processor which I believe to be the bubbles joining together and rising to the surface as series of large bubbles.  I think a sparge pipe may be more effective, but I haven't got round to trying it yet.  As you two are building it would be quite easy to try a sparge pipe with many widely spaced small holes so that the bubbles don't have a chance to combine.

Finally I think it would be a advisable to arrange things so the bubble stream is nowhere near the heating element.  If the element was exposed to a constant bubble stream I think it might cause it to over heat.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 01:31:24 PM by Julian »
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline Tony

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 5108
  • Fo' shizzle, biodizzle
    • Southampton Waste Oil Collection
  • Location: Southampton
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »
That looks like a compressor for those small art air-brushes.  Unfortunately I don't have one of those (yet) but certainly the aquarium bubbler I've got is quite meaty, so we'll see.

It might turn out to be an unnecessary addition what with the pressurised heater spray arrangement that I'm fitting, but I'll add the nipple to the top of the processor just in case (better to have too many ports than too few!).  I was planning on using mild steel nipples and just cutting them in half and grinding so that they would weld in place vertically on the dome of the tank.

I don't think Keith will want to modify the bolt-on cap as the steel is really thick (looks to be about 10mm, it's pretty hefty - that said it might be possible to tap to directly take a nipple, assuming Keith has a tap kit that goes that big!).

As for overwhelming the condenser, have you considered abandoning the plumbers delight and going for 25ft of coiled 12mm in a tank of water?


Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 07:48:19 PM »
Just a quick note on the pressure sensor,my plan was to put it together as i build,passing the bend out through the nipple then soldering on the 15/22mm out side part

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 07:52:16 PM »
Not just a pretty face then?
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 08:12:33 PM »
Found my packet of nylon fly screen today so thats going on the coalescer pile which actually does exist! so far it contains various grades of fibreglass matting,fine gauze from a body repair kit,fly screen and a nifty ball tea strainer

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 12:02:37 AM »

Don't know if it's a "BRTP" dewatering devise, I believe others are doing it. 

There you are, I didn't think it was an original idea!  This from infopop ...

=================================
HDJ80
Member
  Posted August 26, 2011 08:17 PM  Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by evangelos:
hello all,


I have been away from this thread so I apologize if this question has been asked already but has anyone tried bubbling inside the reactor to save space?

evan


I have been bubbling inside the processor for 3 years now and works fine for me...


I drain out the glycerol to a second small Hot water Heater and bubble both and using a refridgeration condensor I recover the methanol both from the Bio and Glycerol at the sametime...


HDJ80
Canberra 
  Location: Canberra | Registered: August 07, 2006
 



=================================

URL ... http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/989100721/p/20
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline K.H

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 2353
  • Location: Tosser towers
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2012, 11:36:21 AM »
Back to the original question,what depth does it have to be,im assuming by Tonys comment that it needs to be adjustable to get it in the right place?

Offline Julian

  • Administrator
  • Oil baron
  • *******
  • Posts: 6389
    • Used Cooking Oil Collection website
  • Location: East Surrey, UK.
Re: Processor pressure switch
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 12:53:16 PM »
I remember getting this answer from Tony when I fitted mine ... to make it as safe as possible the end of the dip pipe needs to be above the heater by what ever safety margin you are happy with.  That way you know for sure there's no pressure in the pipe, before the heater is exposed.

The issue with mine is that, although slightly adjustable, the differential between switch points means that the tank has to be virtually full before it will switch.  I was after some thing that would let me play with different fill levels, whilst not exposing the heater.  So eventually I'll go for a level switch which I hope will give a diferential of circa an inch or so.
Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk