Author Topic: Electrolysis  (Read 12444 times)

Offline knighty

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2016, 10:35:53 AM »
from when I read up on it, the guys doing it were putting anodes all around the outside of the water tub

when they did big stuff they found the bits closest to the anode cleaned up first, and if they put more anodes in the piece would clean up more evenly



but... I'm half thinking does it make any difference in the end?  does it just change which part is converted first, or does it convert better with more ?

also (apparently) loads of amps will clean it up quicker, and bring more paint off etc.. but can leave a pitted surface behind after.   from what I read they were trying to stick under 10amps

at the same time, I guess something little will have a small surface area and only need a few amps, something big with lots of surface area will need more amps ? 

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 12:13:14 PM »
I did some very skimpy reading, but I remember someone commenting that metal is only lost from the anode hence the part to be cleaned must be connected to negative and become the cathode.

That sort of made sense ... think of sacrificial anodes on boats and ships, it's the lump of zinc that erodes/corrodes to protect the hull.
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2016, 01:27:04 PM »
Sacrificial anodes use Nobility of metals to do their job.

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 01:38:23 PM »
Sacrificial anodes use Nobility of metals to do their job.

Sacrificial anodes are usually made of zinc, aluminum or magnesium ... most common I believe is zinc.

Impressed current anodes are usually noble metals, typically platinum plated titanium.

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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 06:31:14 PM »
Well HOW do you know that??????

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 06:41:29 PM »
You don't really want to know do you?
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 09:47:22 PM »
You don't really want to know do you?

FFS, you want some one to ask then question the request, l give up.

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2016, 10:09:49 PM »
You don't really want to know do you?

FFS, you want some one to ask then question the request, l give up.

Winding you up is the only sport I get these days.
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2016, 10:36:05 PM »
You don't really want to know do you?

FFS, you want some one to ask then question the request, l give up.

Winding you up is the only sport I get these days.

Shouldn't I be doing the clock jokes?

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2016, 11:06:03 PM »
You don't really want to know do you?

FFS, you want some one to ask then question the request, l give up.

Winding you up is the only sport I get these days.

Shouldn't I be doing the clock jokes?

Keith'll be along shortly to tell you you shouldn't make cock jokes.

The second company I worked for made impressed current cathodic protection systems.  My first job was to go and fix a system on the QE2.  I'd had no training, hadn't got a clue what I was doing, but the company thought because I liked tinkering with engines, I would make a good service engineer!

I was with that company for 15 years, traveled all over the world and got quite good at commissioning and fixing their other products, but to this day the workings of a cathodic protection control cabinets are still a complete mystery to me.

Used Cooking Oil Collection website ... http://www.surreyusedcookingoilcollection.palmergroup.co.uk

Offline therecklessengineer

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 08:21:23 PM »

Keith'll be along shortly to tell you you shouldn't make cock jokes.

The second company I worked for made impressed current cathodic protection systems.  My first job was to go and fix a system on the QE2.  I'd had no training, hadn't got a clue what I was doing, but the company thought because I liked tinkering with engines, I would make a good service engineer!

I was with that company for 15 years, traveled all over the world and got quite good at commissioning and fixing their other products, but to this day the workings of a cathodic protection control cabinets are still a complete mystery to me.

They're not that complex. By some electromagickery they just keep a constant current flowing through the anodes. Voltage varies around as the anodes deplete.

I had one system that reported everything was normal. In drydock we found there was nothing left of the anodes. The current was flowing from the end of the cable to the hull.

The chemical mechanism by which they prevent corrosion or fouling baffles me though. Something about ions.

Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 09:20:16 PM »
That particular system was fitted late sixtys and was full of weird stuff like triacs and thyristors all connected with great big bus bars ... complete mystery to me.  I'm sure modern systems are very different.  My visits to QE2 was while she was still steam driven!

The theory, as I understand it (but don't take it as gospel, it was a long time ago), is that steel is a mix of metals and you get potential differences between one area and another (on a very small scale).  Therefore, by galvanic action, rusting occurs.   By impressing current through the hull, you make the whole hull negative and prevent the little mini currents between areas of the hull.

Luckily the cabinets didn't go wrong too frequently.  It was, as you say, the annodes and especially the connections within the cofferdams that used to give the most trouble.  I never found one where the platinised titanium had corroded/eroded but plenty where the hull penetration had leaked filling the cofferdam with water.  Before they started using solid filled cable, it wasn't uncommon to find sea water leaking into the control cabinet!

To try and keep the system going until the next dry dock, the trick was to turn the flange on the cofferdam through 180° so the drain plug was at the top and then fill it with hot paraffin wax.  It used to work surprisingly well, but was a bugger to get out when it came time to change the anode.  I spent hours sitting in a stinking bilges with a hammer and screwdriver chiseling the stuff out!

There was a way we used to check the hull potential at various places which should have highlighted if an anode was malfunctioning.  We had things they called copper/copper sulfate half cells.  It was a tube with a copper electrode in the center and a porous plug in the end.  Copper sulfate was packed in the tube around the copper rod.  A long wire was attached to the copper rod and the cell dangled in the water.  A multi-meter was then attached between the wire and the hull if I remember correctly, 200 mv indicated all was well.  I often used to get into trouble for chipping paint off the hand rails to make a circuit!  As with the cabinets, I've no idea how or why this worked.

I use to carry the cell and all my tools in hand luggage ... can't see that being allow these days!

« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 09:30:54 PM by Julian »
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Offline high compression ii

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 09:36:43 PM »
Gotrta be a bit careful--Some rust-removal methods will embrittle the steel....

I recall summit about salts and electrolysis doing this.

Ive had great success with plain old vinegar--and no electrickery...
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Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 09:48:40 PM »
Gotrta be a bit careful--Some rust-removal methods will embrittle the steel....

I recall summit about salts and electrolysis doing this.

Ive had great success with plain old vinegar--and no electrickery...

Oh ... bit worrying if my mower blades are going to shatter!
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Offline Julian

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Re: Electrolysis
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 09:59:04 PM »
Definitely going to use this method again, really pleased with the way the blades turned out (assuming they don't shatter).

This is what they looked like after painting and sharpening ...

« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 10:02:16 PM by Julian »
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