Paddy's site

[Twenty4Seven]

What the feck's up with the VOD site? I can't log on and it seems to be infested with ever more advertising crap, iframes that are broken and now these pop-ups. I'd rather pay for a site that works than have to put up with all that crap.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr     

[K.H]

All seems to have started with the new adverts,im now down to 2 clicks from 4 to go back but im getting the pop ups as well now!
I dont object to all the various fund raising ideas but i would like to see an upgrade at the end of it

[Julian]

I think Paddy's aiming to become the first .veg billionaire.

[Tony]

Or *gulp* we start our own independent forum?

I'm not sure my little machine running this place is up to the traffic a decent forum would throw at it, we might have to start paying for hosting but I suspect a periodic donation drive would cover something like one of these, and avoid all this advertising rubbish we all hate:

http://www.5quidhost.co.uk/hosting.php
http://www.domainmonster.com/web-hosting/
(many others available)

I can imagine it now, if we had control over the administration then there's no reason why there couldn't be a "wiki editors" member group on an independent forum that automatically grants login and edit permissions on the wiki here.  That'd be pretty sweet

[Twenty4Seven]

This'll make you laugh.... I can't log into the VOD site any more. When I try, I get this....

Sorry, the username/password you have entered appears to be incorrect.
Please press the back button on your browser now, and try again.

Hahaha! press the back button .......... how may times??

Tony, if you need cash to set up hosting for a forum on here, I'll chuck in a tenner. Well worth it to be free of that crap on VOD.

[Tony]

I appreciate that.  You're also not the first to make such an offer, which suggests some level of dissatisfaction at the operation of VOD.  I think we've all asked there for some forum upgrading, and several people have even offered to assist with this in the past, but nothing ever seems to come of it.

[Ross.Dunmall]

I'll weigh in a bit now.

One of the things that actually attracted me to this site rather than VOD etc was that the discussion was sensible and ratified.

I found VOD to have far too many members of the view "This is how I've always done it, some bloke told me it works this way and it seems to work for me, so it must be right"

Where as the members I've encountered so far here want to understand the information and either give some proof or are accepting of test results and chemical proof.

Tony - a way to get started on funding for hosting of forums / wiki would be to setup a sticky in the forums with a link to a paypal donation. Also can add a little message in the border area at the top of the wiki itself, asking for donations in order to help the wiki, again taking you to the same paypal donation system. I'd suggest setting up a specific BioPowered e-mail  and paypal and can then post balance of said account for members. If it starts having decent sums rolling in and out could even then look at a separate BioPowered Bank account.

I know I'd certainly donate a modest sum out of my own pocket if/when it should prove needed to run a nice smooth and free service.

[Tony]

Biopowered as it stands runs on a machine used for other things, so hosting is effectively free, and the only cost is the domain name which I am quite happy to donate indefinitely (trivial cost).

I'm not sure this would scale to a fully blown, busy forum, as the bandwidth would likely to get beyond the background level that this site currently consumes.

I believe I speak for all the admin here when I say that we strongly support a not-for-profit model and loathe advertising, so if we ever got into funding via donations then transparency would be an absolute must.  Unfortunately VOD lacks this transparency, and funding appears to fall into a "it's for the hosting" black hole without any accountability.  There's nothing wrong with that, after all VOD forum is part of Paddy's business and no accountability is required.  I think it's just that the skinflint in me doesn't like the idea of anyone profiteering from a  community pretty much entirely dedicated to saving money, and that little ever seems to happen to improve the resource shared by the community (in VODs case, a community funded forum that hangs off a business).

[K.H]

Well i like the VOD although the lack of updates is annoying but it is Paddys and we are just guests i suppose,i am also probably one of the worst for posting non technical threads and comments but i enjoy the banter.
I have absolutely zero knowledge on the chemistry side,the part i enjoy and am reasonably useful at is the building side and i would be altering my processor every week if it wasnt for the small matter of having to make the stuff occasionally
The VOD contains a wealth of archived knowledge which would be lost to any new forum and i imagine the idea would go down like a lead balloon with some,having said that i would support any new forum ran by members here if it mirrored the attitude of the VOD

[Julian]

Show me a fence and I'll sit on it ...

I've sympathy with most of what's been said above.

I regret my inability to understand even the basics of chemistry and I'm eternally grateful to those who offer help in this and other areas.

I thoroughly enjoy the banter on the VOD, in my humble opinion a sense of humour and a little fun in life is vitally important.  That said, I think the VOD goes a over the top on occasions and it seems more like I'd imagine Face book to be than a platform for disseminating information on Biofuels.

Ross, I don't know if you've yet met anyone from the wiki or the VOD, but a lot of members meet up annually at Chug's field for the "BBB" and the "VA" organised by Nigelb.  You really couldn't hope to meet a nicer bunch of reprobates and it's largely from these gatherings, along with occasional face to face meets, that the banter springs.

I tend to agree with Tony regarding the transparency of the VOD.  To that end I've posted asking Paddy some direct questions, but unfortunately received no direct answers, so I'm not sure what to make of the situation.
 
With regard to Biopowered, I agree 100% with Tony's comments regarding advertising and transparency, that was one of the nice things about setting it up, the three of us were all singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to its it's aims and aspirations ... just a shame we didn't have the forethought to ban smilies!   There may come a time when funding is necessary and I think that bridge should be crossed with care, thought, and an open mind, along with the multiple ownership issue ... we're still relying on Tony retaining his sanity for the wikis existence!

However small, I do think it's reasonable for Tony to share the current costs, and I'm more than happy to contribute

[Tony]

Well if you factor in the domain registration the running cost here comes out at £3.35 per year.  Something I feel I've been paid back many times over by the generosity of members of the community, one way or another.

As for my sanity, I'm touched you credit me with any to start off with!

Very much agree on multiple ownership.  At the moment any of the admin can take a backup of the forum and wiki to store off-site.  From which, anyone versed in the basics of setting up a php/mysql system on a server should be able to easily recreate what we have here.

The only thing we don't have multiple access to is the holding/paying for the domain name - hopefully I won't be stepping in front of any busses anytime soon.

If we did go for any larger venture then I think shared access to both the hosting provider and domain name registrar would be the way to go.

[Julian]

Well, I'll pay next year then.

[Twenty4Seven]

Here we go again..... this time criteo.com. It's really gone beyond a joke now.

[Julian]

It is, at the end of the day Paddy's site, we just use it, so he's every right to do what he likes with it.

I think the problem comes in that many are so fond of / addicted to it, that we consider it "ours"!

I've asked direct questions about the running / financing of the site, but got no answers.  Again, that's Paddy's prerogative, it information personal to him / his business.

I think the danger comes in that, without members, the forum has no commercial value in terms of advertising and if enough members get put off and traffic falls, the revenue rasing value falls.  It's a shame Paddy isn't a little more open with the members.  If he were, I'm sure he'd get considerable assistance from the many "techies" we have. That way he could generate income without teeing too many people off.

[Stumpy]

I enjoy the banter on VOD, but I must say some members attitude does stink at times.

The off topic cracks annoy the heck out of me, especially when someone wants a literal answer not a load of bull manure..

Is this the beginning of the end for VOD , time will tell..