Author Topic: new addition  (Read 22733 times)

Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2015, 07:52:07 PM »

Its also hard to weld a 10mm pice of steel to a 1mm drum, especially when the insert is flat and the drum is round.

No it's not,  does anyone think things through nowadays?

Offline oakwoodtv

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Re: new addition
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2015, 08:49:49 PM »
If it was me I would make the curved bit flat with a big hammer and mandrel first.

Offline Twenty4Seven

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Re: new addition
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2015, 10:48:10 PM »
Where's Pete with his lump hammer?
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2015, 11:00:15 PM »
If it was me I would make the curved bit flat with a big hammer and mandrel first.

Why not just cut a neat hole a and pass the boss part way through the drum wall?

Offline GedsJeep

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Re: new addition
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2015, 11:11:08 PM »
why not just do it the way simon did?



after all........




it doesnt leak......




and i`m sure thats the general idea
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 11:12:51 PM by GedsJeep »
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2015, 12:22:58 AM »

Offline GedsJeep

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Re: new addition
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2015, 12:38:46 AM »
sorry, im a bit puzzled as to why, without inspecting the work, you find it ok to dismiss it as substandard and infer that it will leak.

seems a bit strange to me.

i mean,

its not like he made it with lead free solder or anything.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 12:41:20 AM by GedsJeep »
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2015, 04:38:12 PM »
sorry, im a bit puzzled as to why, without inspecting the work, you find it ok to dismiss it as substandard and infer that it will leak.

seems a bit strange to me.

i mean,

its not like he made it with lead free solder or anything.



Did I say the work was inferior in any way or insult the chap that did it, no.

I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.

Fusing metals of different types and density then putting them through endless hot/cold cycles  will produce a fatigue failure at or very close to the joint, it's all to do withe the varying rates of expansion and contraction. I've seen brazed steel components fail after a relatively short duty cycle, it might not happen tomorrow or next week but eventually it will.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 04:39:47 PM by Jamesrl »

Offline Twenty4Seven

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Re: new addition
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2015, 08:08:08 PM »
Why does the same not apply when soldering (with leaded or lead free solder) brass immersion heater bosses to steel in-line heaters Jim?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 08:10:18 PM by Twenty4Seven »
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2015, 10:20:09 PM »
Why does the same not apply when soldering (with leaded or lead free solder) brass immersion heater bosses to steel in-line heaters Jim?

It can and does, of all the inline heaters I've made four or five have failed, usually after 3 to 4 yrs.

Offline GedsJeep

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Re: new addition
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2015, 10:40:22 PM »
I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.


you can put it down to what you like james.

i have my own thoughts on your reasons.

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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2015, 10:49:12 PM »
I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.


you can put it down to what you like james.

i have my own thoughts on your reasons.

And they'd be completely and utterly wrong but I think I know what you were referring to with your comment about it not leaking or am I just being paranoid?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 11:02:48 PM by Jamesrl »

Offline simonallen

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Re: new addition
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2015, 11:00:15 PM »
hmm. I don't want to be causing arguements on here.

a few notes.
Please see attached at diagram, showing the coefficients of linear expansion for some common materials. I know, there are other ingredients in both solder and brazing rods, but the main ingredient of solder is normally either lead or silver, with coefficients of 29.3 and 18.8 respectively. Then note that Brass, is 18.9. Plumbing solder is normally lead based, so has a much hgher expansion rate than the brass. Expansion won't be a problem for the brass.
A weld (more specifically a mig weld because it is bigger, although I have tig facility as well it's just a lot more expesive buying pure argon and i like to save it for the turbo exhaust manifolds i make) will also have a different expansion rate to the base material because it has more material. More material, more expansion for the same  rise in temperature.

Secondly. I made the immersion heater boss for Ged's by hand in the lathe. It's made from hex bar that I had big enough, I bored it out and screw cut it, and parted it off at 10mm deep so that I could use the same piece to do one for my own drum. I then drilled a 12mm hole into the drum, and using two thick round disks which I bolted through the drum (one inside and one outside) I flattened the drum side to match the flatness of the immersion thread. The hole was then made with a hole saw and I tig welded the thread to it. Unfortunately at the time I hadn't got a blank to be able to leak test the weld on the thread (I leak tested the cone before doing the thread) so I got my work mate to braze around it as well to be doubly safe. Unfortunately his brazing isnt as tidy as mine, but that's a different story. I now have a blank which I used today to test mine.

I'm not sure what your background is, and it's not my my place to assume, but I hope that if you're qualified enough to tell me that my method won't work, you will also be able to see the reasoning behind why I did it this way and give me reasons why. I have far from "not thought it through"

Offline GedsJeep

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Re: new addition
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2015, 11:15:17 PM »
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: new addition
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2015, 11:22:10 PM »
First of all I wasn't referring to any one individual with my comment about some not thinking things through.

As far as my experience goes there's my 53yrs in the game of which 22yrs were spent teaching welding and fabrication.

One thing you can't count on is the drums we use, I had one that split along the braze line within 10mins of laying the braze. I was so busy watching the braze pool, as you do, and never noticed a crack following along behind but it wasn't the brass it was the steel cracking.

I never meant to upset or insult anyone. 

My apologies to all.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 11:24:18 PM by Jamesrl »