Best way to mix large batches of methanol and KOH safely????

[Bio-boy]

Looking to upscale my processor to process 200 Litres of WVO which means my current process of mixing my methoxide in a 25 litre drum is rendered useless as you will understand a 200 litre batch will require significantly more methoxide. Therefore I would like to find out what would be the safest method to mix my chemicals in a conical tank??? Are there any reasonably priced pumps that are safe to circulate KOH and Methanol? Could I use compressed air provided that the tank is safely vented to atmosphere to aggrevate the solution i.e. a fish tank pump etc.... 

I will use a venturi to introduce the Methoxide to WVO, its just the prior process I'm struggling with.

Thoughts please.

[Julian]

I made this, mostly from bits I had kicking about ....

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Methoxide_mixer#Methoxide_mixer_design_1

and find it most useful and safe.  It could be upsized I guess.

[Dickjotec]

I have a very similar one made from a 60l clip top. Works well. I used a long plane bearing ( off a ride on deck I think) on the assumption that meth fumes would not travel up it.

[Bio-boy]

I was thinking of a 60L conical tank fitted with a Tee. One side connected to a large Koi pump the other to a venturi. If I vent the tank I can agitate the Methanol/KOH by bubbling the mixture and once complete pump into my reactor. Does it sound as if it would work??? 

[Julian]

Never worked with KOH, but I believe it's more difficult to dissolve in methanol than NaOH and NaOH takes quite a lot of agitation.  I'd doubt if bubbling would be sufficiently turbulent.

Additionally I suspect you'd have problems contaminating the methoxide.  If blow air through the mix I recon the methanol will pull the moisture from the air, humidity can be surprisingly high some days.

I'd also be weary of pumping methanol.  The safest way is low speed mechanical mixing and entraining the mix into the processor preferably with a venturi.  Some people tap into the processor pump suction which should be OK if some way from the pump.

[dgs]

Never worked with KOH, but I believe it's more difficult to dissolve in methanol than NaOH and NaOH takes quite a lot of agitation.  I'd doubt if bubbling would be sufficiently turbulent.

Additionally I suspect you'd have problems contaminating the methoxide.  If blow air through the mix I recon the methanol will pull the moisture from the air, humidity can be surprisingly high some days.

I'd also be weary of pumping methanol.  The safest way is low speed mechanical mixing and entraining the mix into the processor preferably with a venturi.  Some people tap into the processor pump suction which should be OK if some way from the pump.
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It is t'other way round Julian, KOH is easy to dissolve, NaOH can be a pig.

Bio Boy, just fit your 220 conical with a mixing paddle, Don't like the sound of bubbling. In summer when the methanol is warmer it is easy to boil the stuff when mixing with KOH. However you do it keep well away from any fumes.

[therecklessengineer]

Make up a concentrated solution in a 25L drum. Then add methanol into another container to dilute to the right ratios. No pumps needed.

I did for a while use a central heating pump to agitate NaOH/methanol. It worked for a while, then died. A post mortem found a pump stator that was very badly corroded.

[Bio-boy]

Would this pump be suitable to do the job???

http://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/piusi_EX50_pump_230v.html

DGS - I'm thinking of venting the tank outside the building so any fumes will be vented to atmosphere and not into the workspace.

[Jamesrl]

Would this pump be suitable to do the job???

http://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/piusi_EX50_pump_230v.html

Save yourself all the aggravation and use ASM as your catalyst, NO mixing,  NO nasty dust, next to NO soap (if you dry your oil properly) and even better yields.

You won't regret it.

[Bio-boy]

I think the biggest issue is getting hold of it as it isn't the easiest thing to get hold off.

Does the Glycerin set or does it remain liquid like KOH??

[Jamesrl]

I think the biggest issue is getting hold of it as it isn't the easiest thing to get hold off.

Does the Glycerin set or does it remain liquid like KOH??

That depends on ambient temperature, it sets fairly quickly in winter but remains liquid in summer.

Nigelb is our main supplier and quite a lot gets shifted via the forum network.

[nigelb]

I agree...If you're mixing large or small amounts of methoxide then using ASM is by far the easiest method.

I can get you any quantity of ASM you require. Fully gauranteed with a C of C from one of two maufacturing sites in Europe. Either Evoniks or BASF. Can supply in 25's or drums. Choice is yours.

[Bio-boy]

How much ASM would I require to substitute 3000g of sodium or 4200g of KOH?

My first stage reaction would normally consist of 32 litres of Methanol working on the basis of reacting 600 litre WVO. Would this figure require reducing based upon the methanol content of ASM?

The only ASM I can find on the web appears to be powder form which I'm led to believe is extremely dangerous.

[nigelb]

How much ASM would I require to substitute 3000g of sodium or 4200g of KOH?

My first stage reaction would normally consist of 96 litres of Methanol working on the basis of reacting 600 litre WVO. Would this figure require reducing based upon the methanol content of ASM?

The only ASM I can find on the web appears to be powder form which I'm led to believe is extremely dangerous.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Processing_with_anhydrous_sodium_methylate

[Bio-boy]

Thanks.

Are there any precautions as to what chemicals you should add to what or can you simply poor the ASM into a conical tank and then top up with Methanol? I know you should at KOH/sodium to Methanol and not the other way round. Does the same go for ASM?