Eductors and squirrels

[Tony]

I'm sure I saw a post here last night on eductors and squirrels, but that seems to have gone?

I've spoken to a few brewers that haven't had much (or, indeed any) success with eductors, but I'm not sure why - it's a well proven mixing method for industrial process, and I have little doubt that they should work well for us too, if designed and placed correctly.

Squirrels on the other hand, don't get me started again 

[Julian]

Na, must be a Methanol overdose again.

[Tony]

Must be

[K.H]

It was my post Tony,a longer version of what you said ,just bear in mind you started this
I dont go asking people about eductors but it just seems to crop up in conversations probably because there dissappointed in them,i dont deny they do work its the 750 lpm (this also seems to increase,i swear it was 500 something last time) i dont agree with,maybe in theory but not reality,i know of 5 members on here who are dissapointed and a couple have ditched them altogether,how does my 240lpm pump out perform my 80lpm pump with eductor?,i know the answer we fitted them wrong
I would actually like to have a reasonable discussion on the veg site about it but it would,nt happen

[Tony]

It's possibly not fair to compare by stating the equivalent pump lpm, because the agitation is very different, the pump moves bottom to top with an aggressive liquid sheer as it goes through the impeller(s) whereas an eductor has a less aggressive sheer but if placed correctly should homogenise the contents of the mixing vessel well.

It may come down to the floating Methoxide layer on the oil, when it is initially added.  By pumping you're passing oil at the bottom of the processor through this floating layer at the top.

But for an eductor to work, it has to be positioned exactly in order to suck this layer down into the oil.  It must be quite hard to get this level right, as too low and it won't touch the floating layer, and too high it'll draw in an air vortex and not work well at all.

All of this relies on precise positioning of the eductor and the brewer getting the liquid levels just right every time.

It's the latter that puts me off getting an eductor (because I have no doubt they must work well when the conditions are right).

[K.H]

But they are marketed in our world as a means of getting from start to finish quicker,so its fair in my opinion to put them up against a large pump,esp when its often stated "turns a tam into",I also have no doubt they work - its this 750 lpm stuff that annoys me,i think its more doubles a tam/halves your reaction time!
So  you can go from a £50/40lpm Tam to an  £80/80lpm for about £30/40 which cant be much more than an eductor
So why dont people just say you can get a better reaction time by either? and from my point of view i prefer the pump because in dosent restrict me to a full/precise batch every time

[Julian]

I think it's Biotim who keeps advocating large pumps and I have to say I agree.  The mixing through a pump impeller surely can't be beaten, it's just a matter of getting all of the components through the pump at the same time.

There's an interesting thread on infopop at the moment about using a jet to mix the components.  This is something I've often thought about, but fired from the top, not the bottom as Rick's trying.

[K.H]

Trouble is whatever Biotim says some others automatically disagree!,i will have a read on the info pop,ta
My idea-for what its worth-was a central columm with decreasing holes going up and capped,the hole sizes would need tuning to the pump,the aim being to get even jets firing out all the way up so the whole lot is mixing at the same time,i was thinking of drawing from a couple of inches below the top maybe while circulating to take into account any floating meth,with a normal bottom outlet as well
Seems strange that we are trying to mix a liquid that floats yet draw from the bottom,but then again i still cant suss 8mm and 22mm

[Julian]

You mean a sparge pipe!  From where does the pump draw, bottom or top?

[K.H]

When mixing from just under the surface,so it takes the top and evenly jets it into the wholec mix but tee,d into a normal bottom feed for emptying
Just off to google"sparge"

[Julian]

Seems perfectly reasonable, the only issue I see is that you would be fixing a fill level for the tank (same as an eductor does) unless you can dream up a floating pickup that will withstand conditions inside the processor.

[K.H]

Doubt id ever make one,just a thought really
Something i do intend to do is build a miniature plant for testing ideas
Anyway lets hear Tonys thoughts on Squirrels 

[Julian]

Funny how the mind wanders and goes off and has a silly half hour of it's own ... I once pondered on using a cement mixer as a processor.  Not too practical, but it would certainly mix well!

[Rotary-Motion]

Funny how the mind wanders and goes off and has a silly half hour of it's own ... I once pondered on using a cement mixer as a processor.  Not too practical, but it would certainly mix well!

hmm ye olde agitation effect, good ol twin tubs shit on clothes good for mixing

[Rotary-Motion]

Doubt id ever make one,just a thought really
Something i do intend to do is build a miniature plant for testing ideas
Anyway lets hear Tonys thoughts on Squirrels 

that is a good idea! if you need any parts shout may source the odd bit for you! i would like simarlar to blow people's idea out the water and see if they do exactly what they say on the tin or they do not!

whispers of gold in them the hills get annoying when money is involved, fact and fiction blend into insigifcance. and in reality holds no key.