Author Topic: new picture with valve 9  (Read 8185 times)

Offline Tony

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 02:03:52 PM »
That is true, but in practise the valves should be left closed during processing - mixing air into the flow increases backpressure to the pump (on my system from 1.0 bar to 1.3 bar) with consequential reduction in flow and batch turnover rate.  Plus there might be some oxidisation considerations to take in (though it would be the same air going around and around so perhaps only limited oxygen available anyway).

Offline Julian

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 03:30:23 PM »
Best practise is to close V4 and V7.  If the oil is very thick or you make a complete batch of soap (as I did recently!) the flow will take the easiest path. So if the resistance in the main circuit is high, it will also find it's way into the vapour circuit and Methoxide mixer, regardless of orientation or position.

General rule of thumb should be close everything and only open the valves you need and then double check you've opened the right ones.  My system has grown quite complicated over the years.  I have two pumps which can run simultaneously in tandem or on separate circuits.  The Mono has flying hoses so I can pump just about anything from anywhere to anywhere.  My favourite trick is to leave a hose valve open and pump oil or bio all over the place ... shot myself in the back with warm bio once!
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Offline Rotary-Motion

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 09:57:09 PM »
i got 2 questions

1, if the venturi is fitted as in the picture (at the top horizontal) will it still work? as no back pressure creating suck

2, do we really need valve V7 ? as this valve only sucks air, if you need to suck air in reacting just leave valve V4 open as when meths gone it sucks air after!

Offline Julian

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 11:23:15 PM »
My venturi is horizontal, similar layout to GL's drawing, as are several other peoples.

Jim advocates that a venturi should be vertical with one swept bend between it and the processor to create back pressure.  Personally I think the requirement is slightly different ... I think the jet from the throat needs to "fill the pipe" for the venturi to function correctly, the two are not quite the same.  If a venturi is accurately made (mine are drilled on a lathe), I recon the tendency is for the jet from the throat to travel up the centre of the pipe without touching the sides.  It can be encouraged to touch the sides by a bend and gravity can assist, especially if the venturi is vertical.

Given time I'd like to try some experiments with diverging jets which should, by design, fill the pipe.



With the last venturi I made I believe it wasn't "filling the pipe" despite having a swept bend down stream, so I fitted a jet breaker™ after the venturi and it works fine.  The jet breaker™ is simply a brass rod inserted through opposing holes in the pipe and soldered in place. This, as the name suggests, breaks up the jet forcing the flow to fill the pipe.  It seems to work really well.  If I'm right it should be possible to only have a short, straight run into the processor, but don't hold me to that as I haven't tried it!



Personally I prefer the venturi up high, above the fluid level in the tank, that way, if you forget to close valves the vent pipe work can't fill with oil.


Re valve V7 ... yes, you need it.if you omit it, when you open valve V4 to entrain Methoxide you most likely won't.  This is because the flow will take the path of least resistance which will be to suck air from the vapour circuit.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:46:41 PM by Julian »
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Offline Rotary-Motion

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2011, 07:49:08 AM »
hmm that is very intersting julian, i still think V4 left open would be fine as when meth carbouy empty it will carry on sucking its air, and as its venturied with keep a circulation of vent vapour ok via processor...


just read a guy on veg site has horizontal and no bends just straight in and gets 20mins for 30ltrs,
Quote
Originally posted by mon
Thought venturis worked on the pressure difference across the input/output, mine on the horizontal going into the processor with only about 12" of straight copper after.
Takes about 20 mins for 30l of methanol, although it does lift the methanol around 1.5 metres.

Would I benefit by adding back pressure?

your finding or thoughts on the after pipe in the venturi is interesting! i think if you look at a NigeB due to plumbing fittings used it makes its own back pressure (if its needed at all) so no need for bends and would be quite happy horizontal, begood to know if anyone has a nigeB fitted this way?

Offline Tony

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2011, 10:22:26 AM »
Oh I do like that Jetbraker idea. Personally I prefer horizontal and up high, next build I'll try it out!

Other possibility is horizontal with a 90 elbow into the tank, so the venturi is beside the tank if you see what I mean?

Offline Julian

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Re: new picture with valve 9
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2011, 10:43:16 AM »
That's exactly the way mine is, but the bend is very slow.  The suction would establish some times but not others.  With the jet breaker ™ it establishes every time.
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