Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Vegetable oil motoring => Filter rigs => Topic started by: GedsJeep on May 02, 2015, 10:36:46 PM

Title: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 02, 2015, 10:36:46 PM
i had a nice person make my new addition.

i had been using a large tube for dewatering as some had seen in the venturi drying videos.

well as the width was limiting my choice of uri or diffusers i decided to go for a cone bottomed 205.

(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150429-WA0007_zpsk6npha3d.jpg) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150429-WA0007_zpsk6npha3d.jpg.html)

now, i had also seen one of these...

https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/washingsupplies.php#drypro

so, 10 mins after looking at that page, i was presented with this.

(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150501-WA0000_zpsyycwvmsd.jpg) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150501-WA0000_zpsyycwvmsd.jpg.html)

im well chuffed as all the pipework, and taps were supplied too.

i will upload some pics of the welds and the nozzle in action tomorrow.

well chuffed i am.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 02, 2015, 10:47:33 PM
dont show them the naff braze! that wasnt me  ;D
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 02, 2015, 10:53:13 PM
 :-X


simon, im well impressed.

i wish i had half of your fabricating talent

wait till they see the diffuser in action.

 :o
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 03, 2015, 09:28:05 AM
i'll send you some more pipe fittings up when ive got them sorted, can get the feed into the next tank better then  8)

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 03, 2015, 09:28:53 AM
gedsi enterprise diffuser nozzles for sle soon then lol
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 03, 2015, 05:28:28 PM
more vids to follow..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lTjDEM79aM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2T5RsKh15c

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Julian on May 03, 2015, 08:25:33 PM
Excellent work there, really nice fan.

Can you estimate how thick the oil sheet is in the center?  I don't think he edges would be the same.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 03, 2015, 10:44:16 PM
i did notice that the edges had a band along them, but i was more preoccupied with dangling a 500 quid phone in there......

it was way less than a millimeter and even thinner when hot.

it needs tweaking as there is a strange effect.

when you put your face level with it and open the valve, there is a marked increase in air flowing with it.

the oil then "bends" upwards slightly and goes everywhere.

its as though the oil is creating its own "lift" due to the shape of the section. "think wing"

i will have my mits on a few more of these at different angles by wednesday, and will post vids accordingly.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 03, 2015, 11:17:22 PM
i did notice that the edges had a band along them, but i was more preoccupied with dangling a 500 quid phone in there......

it was way less than a millimeter and even thinner when hot.

it needs tweaking as there is a strange effect.

when you put your face level with it and open the valve, there is a marked increase in air flowing with it.

the oil then "bends" upwards slightly and goes everywhere.

its as though the oil is creating its own "lift" due to the shape of the section. "think wing"

i will have my mits on a few more of these at different angles by wednesday, and will post vids accordingly.

that must be the air pressure travelling round the inside the drum (from the jet speed) both sides giving it lift at the end where it must be quite a fine spray pattern. sort of a vortex or cyclone???

one thing I did on my build was made the cone bottom outlet high enough off the floor to get a 20 ltr cubie under to drop glyc, but in doing this height becomes an issue (specially in a shed - lower roof)
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 04, 2015, 12:23:20 AM
yeah, my shed is only 6` tall, luckily im short.

simons brief was to allow a washing up bowl underneath, but keep it short so i can see in the top. ???

im going to try some 100 deg c oil, a steeper angle and an extension on the downpipe when the updated bits arrive on wednesday.

im only going to be doing 150L runs, so i have plenty of space to play with.

utah are selling them at 50 dollars. i think simon could offer them a bit cheaper. ;)
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rossey on May 05, 2015, 12:08:36 PM
What pump you running this on ged?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 01:10:57 PM
tam 105 mate.

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rossey on May 05, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
Really

I need one of them nozzles for drying bio.

Looks great
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 05:58:11 PM
give us a few days to try different angles and perfect them.

i`ll ask simon to quote a price mate.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 05, 2015, 08:10:29 PM
well,
once we have the spray pattern how we want it I would be able to sell these for around £20 each, and could supply them as blanks for you to experiment with spray patterns yourself. But please dont see this as a business thing, It's a hobby. The £20 would cover the cost of the materials and the time on the lathe. Would also need to know how people mount things, Ged's pipework was originally 22mm copper pipe fittings which would need a compression joint but the setup I have sent him is all 1/2" bsp air pipe as that's what I have setup for. Either fitting would be fine but I would need to know what people need when they order.

I've sent another nozzle to Ged today, so am awaiting his report on it. Bear in mind, this is just me playing with angles, by no means are my fluid mechanics as good as my land rover mechanics  ::)
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Chug on May 05, 2015, 08:29:50 PM
Excellent stuff Ged and Simon, I wish I had more time to get back into experimenting and trying ideas out its great, keep up the good work chaps
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
 ;D

its coz we is tight..... :o
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rossey on May 05, 2015, 08:53:57 PM
Sounds good to me.

I will need one for 22mm pipe.

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Julian on May 05, 2015, 10:17:45 PM
by no means are my fluid mechanics as good as my land rover mechanics

From my fairly long experience of Land Rover mechanics, it's nothing more complicated than hitting bits with a hammer.

The weight of the hammer being directly proportional to the severity of the problem.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 10:29:37 PM
cant be that long.




or you would know that rust spiders are scared of hammers.....
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 06, 2015, 07:23:17 AM
there aint much on there i'd be comfortable hitting with a hammer, it's a bit "crusty" lol.

if you close the door, not only does the window drop down but half it's underside drops off and hits the floor!
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Julian on May 06, 2015, 04:52:46 PM
The more bits that drop off the less there is to go wrong.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rossey on May 11, 2015, 02:37:15 PM
Any news on this, want one  ;D
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 11, 2015, 04:48:39 PM
i got it this morning mate, but i seem to be having a bit of car trouble...

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2508.0/topicseen.html

ive glanced at it and it seems ok,

no restriction at all on the veg side (unenergised)

but i will need to get a new fuel tank made to fit the new car so wont be fitting it for a few weeks.

Ged
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 14, 2015, 10:00:41 AM
whats the going rate for a 205 cone bottom custom order.?




oh, and simon is back of holidays if anyone needs a nozzle
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Twenty4Seven on May 14, 2015, 11:03:23 AM
whats the going rate for a 205 cone bottom custom order.?


Leaky or non-leaky?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 14, 2015, 11:33:39 AM
Err, none leaky? ???

Braised around the immersion ring for added safety.



Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 14, 2015, 04:40:00 PM
competely brazed, not soldered  8)
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 14, 2015, 06:09:19 PM
competely brazed, not soldered  8)

It'd have to be a steel 2 1/4" immersion ring 'cause you can't braze a brass one, if you have a steel one why not weld it on.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 14, 2015, 07:12:32 PM
I used a steel threaded insert for ged's. I have sifbronze no1 rods, so can braze brass to steel easily.
Its also hard to weld a 10mm pice of steel to a 1mm drum, especially when the insert is flat and the drum is round. Lots of potentil to either blow through, or get leaks in between a stop-start weld
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 14, 2015, 07:52:07 PM

Its also hard to weld a 10mm pice of steel to a 1mm drum, especially when the insert is flat and the drum is round.

No it's not,  does anyone think things through nowadays?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: oakwoodtv on May 14, 2015, 08:49:49 PM
If it was me I would make the curved bit flat with a big hammer and mandrel first.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Twenty4Seven on May 14, 2015, 10:48:10 PM
Where's Pete with his lump hammer?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 14, 2015, 11:00:15 PM
If it was me I would make the curved bit flat with a big hammer and mandrel first.

Why not just cut a neat hole a and pass the boss part way through the drum wall?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 14, 2015, 11:11:08 PM
why not just do it the way simon did?



after all........




it doesnt leak......




and i`m sure thats the general idea
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 15, 2015, 12:22:58 AM



it doesnt leak.

Yet.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 15, 2015, 12:38:46 AM
sorry, im a bit puzzled as to why, without inspecting the work, you find it ok to dismiss it as substandard and infer that it will leak.

seems a bit strange to me.

i mean,

its not like he made it with lead free solder or anything.

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 15, 2015, 04:38:12 PM
sorry, im a bit puzzled as to why, without inspecting the work, you find it ok to dismiss it as substandard and infer that it will leak.

seems a bit strange to me.

i mean,

its not like he made it with lead free solder or anything.



Did I say the work was inferior in any way or insult the chap that did it, no.

I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.

Fusing metals of different types and density then putting them through endless hot/cold cycles  will produce a fatigue failure at or very close to the joint, it's all to do withe the varying rates of expansion and contraction. I've seen brazed steel components fail after a relatively short duty cycle, it might not happen tomorrow or next week but eventually it will.

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Twenty4Seven on May 15, 2015, 08:08:08 PM
Why does the same not apply when soldering (with leaded or lead free solder) brass immersion heater bosses to steel in-line heaters Jim?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 15, 2015, 10:20:09 PM
Why does the same not apply when soldering (with leaded or lead free solder) brass immersion heater bosses to steel in-line heaters Jim?

It can and does, of all the inline heaters I've made four or five have failed, usually after 3 to 4 yrs.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 15, 2015, 10:40:22 PM
I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.


you can put it down to what you like james.

i have my own thoughts on your reasons.

Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 15, 2015, 10:49:12 PM
I'll put your comments down to your lack of experience and knowledge of metals.


you can put it down to what you like james.

i have my own thoughts on your reasons.

And they'd be completely and utterly wrong but I think I know what you were referring to with your comment about it not leaking or am I just being paranoid?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 15, 2015, 11:00:15 PM
hmm. I don't want to be causing arguements on here.

a few notes.
Please see attached at diagram, showing the coefficients of linear expansion for some common materials. I know, there are other ingredients in both solder and brazing rods, but the main ingredient of solder is normally either lead or silver, with coefficients of 29.3 and 18.8 respectively. Then note that Brass, is 18.9. Plumbing solder is normally lead based, so has a much hgher expansion rate than the brass. Expansion won't be a problem for the brass.
A weld (more specifically a mig weld because it is bigger, although I have tig facility as well it's just a lot more expesive buying pure argon and i like to save it for the turbo exhaust manifolds i make) will also have a different expansion rate to the base material because it has more material. More material, more expansion for the same  rise in temperature.

Secondly. I made the immersion heater boss for Ged's by hand in the lathe. It's made from hex bar that I had big enough, I bored it out and screw cut it, and parted it off at 10mm deep so that I could use the same piece to do one for my own drum. I then drilled a 12mm hole into the drum, and using two thick round disks which I bolted through the drum (one inside and one outside) I flattened the drum side to match the flatness of the immersion thread. The hole was then made with a hole saw and I tig welded the thread to it. Unfortunately at the time I hadn't got a blank to be able to leak test the weld on the thread (I leak tested the cone before doing the thread) so I got my work mate to braze around it as well to be doubly safe. Unfortunately his brazing isnt as tidy as mine, but that's a different story. I now have a blank which I used today to test mine.

I'm not sure what your background is, and it's not my my place to assume, but I hope that if you're qualified enough to tell me that my method won't work, you will also be able to see the reasoning behind why I did it this way and give me reasons why. I have far from "not thought it through"
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 15, 2015, 11:15:17 PM
(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/4176_popcorn_3.gif) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/4176_popcorn_3.gif.html)
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Jamesrl on May 15, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
First of all I wasn't referring to any one individual with my comment about some not thinking things through.

As far as my experience goes there's my 53yrs in the game of which 22yrs were spent teaching welding and fabrication.

One thing you can't count on is the drums we use, I had one that split along the braze line within 10mins of laying the braze. I was so busy watching the braze pool, as you do, and never noticed a crack following along behind but it wasn't the brass it was the steel cracking.

I never meant to upset or insult anyone. 

My apologies to all.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: simonallen on May 16, 2015, 08:36:05 AM
First of all I wasn't referring to any one individual with my comment about some not thinking things through.

I took it as you meant it to me, being as you said it directly underneath a quote from me. If I interpreted this wrong I also am sorry.
I also agree entirely on the drums, the steel that they use is shocking. I am surprised you saw a crack form in the steel though, as the only molecular change in the base material would be a slight hardening from heating it up to cherry red for the braze. I have seen what you describe happen after a weld many times, because with a weld you are introducing a chemical mis of two different materials. Brazing, and soldering is just a bond so the joint will generally fail before the materials being joined. Having said that, stranger things have happened I guess.

Anyway, hopefully this wont taint my time on the forum. I don't want to come across as arrogant, I'm far from it (from what I can tell Ged has a low tolerance of arrogance and he hasnt said anyting to me yet lol so i think I'm ok ;-) ) I just enjoy what I do and have come here to learn a bit more and offer my help for the help I recieve wherever possible.
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 16, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
no,

 i have a low dickhead threshold.

its different to my low arrogance threshold........

it gets lower the older i get....








Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 16, 2015, 12:49:08 PM
right, now that thats cleared up, rossey, get in touch so we can sort this for you
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: Rossey on May 17, 2015, 10:12:18 PM
Hello

Have you tested the new one?
Title: Re: new addition
Post by: GedsJeep on May 17, 2015, 10:37:28 PM
they all work mate, the only difference in the angle is.... well..... the angle it comes out at.

i was filling the drum right up, hence the initial angle, but my findings are that with the shallower angle, you can fit more oil in the drum, but i would reccomend either a collar on the top, or the nozzle setting deep in the drum.

with the steeper angle, you dont get as much "lift", but the fan isnt as long, due to the angle. (it hits the oil in the drum).

i will make a few vids tomorrow and show the differences. 8)