Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: Julian on April 03, 2015, 05:25:06 PM
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Having put a nice new fan on Frankinpump (TAM 120) I thought I'd change the capacitor as I noticed it's been charred for some time.
Knowing it was on the way out, I bought the same capacitor as KH when he had his blow. Having fitted it the pump now runs backwards.
Keith ... did your replacement capacitor create the same problem and if so how did you cure it.
If it didn't, has anyone any idea how I can reverse the rotation. In my simplistic and optimistic way I've tried changing the leads on the capacitor round with no effect.
The wiring isas follows ... live goes to a blue wire that disappears into the windings. Neutral is connected to the same side of capacitor as a yellow wire which disappears into the windings and a red wire to the other side of the capacitor which also goes to the windings.
I'll have a Google , but I'd really appreciate any assistance from someone who knows what they are doing!.
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Nope, not running backwards, did i post pics when mine blew?
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Found your post, but no photos, only one of mine showing the capacitor rating.
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2244.0.html
In that thread you mad a comment near the end " live wasn't going to the cap" my live doesn't go to the capacitor, it goes to the windings as stated above.
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That was when i was just testing the wires, before i took the black connection box to bits, then i saw how it should be and replaced it with a choc block thingy, i think you need Oakwood tv?
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Think you're right, hope he'll be along soon.
The blue to the motor windings did fall off whilst I was fighting to remove the burnt capacitor, but there was only one spare connector from which it could come and that's connected to the live in coming (that's assuming the person I bought the pump from wired it correctly in the first place).
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the connection diagram is half way down this page with the terminal block numbers.
http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/tam_cpe.pdf
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the connection diagram is half way down this page with the terminal block numbers.
http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/tam_cpe.pdf
That was the first thing I checked but unfortunately it's the TAM 120, bottom left diagram which is less that helpful!
Been looking at this page ... http://www.carymart.com/blog/tag/ac-motor-remote-controller/ (http://www.carymart.com/blog/tag/ac-motor-remote-controller/) which seem a bit more informative, but I cant grantee it's the same layout as the TAM 120. Think I'll stick a meter on the wires emanating direct from the motor and see if that gives any clues.
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Interesting ... as I bought the pump and as it's been running for over a year, the live and neutral are reversed compared to the unhelpful diagram in the Clarke manual.
Think I'd better check how the plug's wired.
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Things i do eh?
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Tam%20120%20003_zpsmkyt03ss.jpg)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Tam%20120%20002_zpsomqzd7cb.jpg)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Tam%20120%20001_zps3rvfcuvt.jpg)
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Top man, thank you.
That confirms my pump was wired wrong when I bought it. What you have there was the way I was considering rewiring it.
I'll copy that and report back.
Where did the right angled connectors come from, I've only got straight ones.
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I had to buy some (ebay) because of the lack of room, i have some spare now if you need them?
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All sorted, no bangs, no sparks, running the right way pumping oil with no leaks almost a first for me ... thanks for your help, Keith.
As the terminal blocks seem to have a habit of melting along with the capacitors, I'll do a little diagram and stick it on the wiki for others with the same problem.
For the bent connectors I bent a straight one and whacked some heat shrink round it.
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Its good to see you have sorted it only just got on the site the good lady has been complaining
that I spend to much time in the shed so have spent the night watching mindless drivel on
the TV.
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Its good to see you have sorted it only just got on the site the good lady has been complaining
that I spend to much time in the shed so have spent the night watching mindless drivel on
the TV.
Now you're reading mindless drivel on here.
As an obvious motor guru, is this likely to be the arrangement for the motor above ...
(http://www.carymart.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/capacitor-start-motor-run-forward.jpg)
the resistance readings I got earlier today were ..
Blue to yellow 3.9 Ω
Blue to red 2.2 Ω
Red to yellow 5.5 Ω
If you can confirm I'll replicate the diagram for the wiki.
The resistance readings may be a little dodgy as the connectors had charred plastic over them, but if the diagram above is correct are the wingdings the same or is one start and one run?
I still cant work out why the rotation was correct with live and neutral round the wrong way, but when I changed the capacitor, I had to swap the connections.
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That is correct as a rough guide the main winding is the lower ohms reading
and the capacitor winding is the higher ohms reading.
The yellow wire is normally the capacitor winding.
If the yellow and red wire are swapped over the rotation will be reversed
its not designed to run this way so possibly it will sound rough.
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That's great, many thanks.
If the wiring was wrong ie L and N reversed, could that cause the capacitor to overheat?
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Done the diagram but had to start a page on which to put it!
I'll populate the page and add it to the main index later when I get time ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Pump_-_TAM_120 (http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Pump_-_TAM_120)
Keith, I'll use some of your photos on the page if I may.
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No problem
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That's great, many thanks.
If the wiring was wrong ie L and N reversed, could that cause the capacitor to overheat?
No the motor and capacitor will still see a 50 hertz sine wave and operate as normal.
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its worth noting that if you change the cap make sure it is a motor run cap not a start cap,which will overheat
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its worth noting that if you change the cap make sure it is a motor run cap not a start cap,which will overheat
Will do. I was going to put the spec. of the capacitor as Keiths was illegible when his blew, but I'll add that note to it, thanks.
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Keith ... can I have a photo of your pump complete for the web page please?
Mine now has a printed terminal cover and they seem to have changed the design of the terminal box on the new ones ...
(https://www.machinemart.co.uk/images/library/product/medium/05/051011195.jpg?2)
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Keith ... can I have a photo of your pump complete for the web page please?
Mine now has a printed terminal cover and they seem to have changed the design of the terminal box on the new ones ...
(https://www.machinemart.co.uk/images/library/product/medium/05/051011195.jpg?2)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/003_zps7tza2bty.jpg)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/001_zpsbrmdkrxu.jpg)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/002_zpsqgsasxo7.jpg)
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Thank you muchly.
Have to say your near distance photography has improved.
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Your missus gave me instrutions on photoing small objects :)
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She's got her own macro lens.
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Your missus gave me instrutions on photoing small objects :)
I have macro lenses capable of taking pictures of subjects smaller than ants in perfect focus, perhaps his mrs would like to borrow them, she might be able to see it then.
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Your missus gave me instrutions on photoing small objects :)
... smaller than ants in perfect focus, perhaps his mrs would like to borrow them, ...
What your ants, I don't think so.
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Hi Julian, I also use a tam 120. Why do you call it a Frankinpump?
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Coupled with my convoluted piping, it assists me in one of my few areas of excellence ... making emulsions.
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Wow, it amazing how quickly you (well, I) forget these things. After much relearning how to wiki I've just finished putting the TAM 120 page together. It's now indexed on the wiki front page.
Welcome any constructive criticism, suggestions, recommendations for improvement and the usual slagging off from the pedants!
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Looks good, trying my hardest i cant see any errors - yet! :)