Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: staphoent on February 19, 2014, 06:18:26 PM
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I am a newbie to bio-diesel production and I have spent the last few days reading bio-diesel books, articles and browsing the two forums (this and VOD.co.uk). I have well and truly caught the bug (I am seeing 205 litre barrels with pipes coming out of them in my sleep).
I have a secured small, but steady supply of waste vegetable oil and my hope is to produce small quantities of good quality bio-diesel (clean and well reacted). Being a student however I am on somewhat of a limited budget. I have lots of questions that I would like to ask to experienced bio-diesel producers, the first is this:
My understanding is that the functional difference between a 'Graham Laming style' producer and an 'Appleseed styled' one is that the G.L.P limits the release of harmful fumes, allows for methanol recovery but has not capacity for post-reaction washing. However the A.S.P allows for post-reaction washing but releases more fumes. Have I understood the functional benefits and drawbacks of the two designs correctly or are there some that I have missed?
All help/advice and input will be beneficial.
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Hi and welcome to the forum and wiki ... trust you've read the wiki, it's an accumulation of knowledge from both the VOD and members on here and hopefully reflects the latest methods and designs.
I'm just off out, so can't post a long reply, but very briefly, stick with the GL, best design by far and it's quite possible to wash in a GL, I do, but the original design relied on removing all/most of the methanol which make settling out the soaps very quick.
And a GL can be built on quite a small budget if you are good at making and scrounging things!
I expect others will chip in whilst I'm out but keep asking questions. We're happy to help if you've done your research to understand the answers.
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Hi and welcome, go GL you can always wash in a separate tank if you wish.
If you demeth (and save money) let the bio settle for a few days washing, should you get the urge, will be so much easier.
One more thing though, you'll need a sense of humour.
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Stick with it and you'll be as loopy as us in no time......
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Hi Julian,
Thanks for the reply, I have read a lot of the wiki (its awesome) but I'm going to start focusing my reading on the GL processor stuff. I will take yours and Jamesrl's advice and work towards a GL design. I'm not bad at scrounging, I picked up a 47kg (100L) calor style steel gas bottle today for free (stole the idea off a member on the VOD forum) , I like the idea of using steel rather than copper and 100L size is perfect for me.
Thanks for the reply Jamesrl, demething sounds like a good Idea. I've been doing a lot of studying so I was in academic mode when I wrote my post lol. You don't want me to start joking because none of the members on here will get any diesel making done, all their time will be spent logging onto the forum to make sure they don't miss my comedy gold ha!
Anyway to both of you, thanks for the advice. Can you tell me the models of the types of pumps that I should be looking out for on ebay to use as the main pump in a GL processor with a 100L reactor tank?
P.S to greasmonkey- I hope bio-diesel production isn't as addictive as it has been for me in the last few days, or is it that meth driving you loopy? haha
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P.S to greasmonkey- I hope bio-diesel production isn't as addictive as it has been for me in the last few days,
Your a student, you say? Young? You poor boy, you don't know what you are getting yourself into........
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Hi,
Making biodiesel can be very addictive.
Are you a student of anything that might be useful, ie chemistry, engineering, electronics, etc.
If not step up to the learning curve.
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Are you a student of anything that might be useful, ie chemistry, engineering, electronics, etc.
If not step up to the learning curve.
Haha, unfortunately not, I study theology, so unless prayers are going to help me, my academics are of no use lol.
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Are you a student of anything that might be useful, ie chemistry, engineering, electronics, etc.
If not step up to the learning curve.
Haha, unfortunately not, I study theology, so unless prayers are going to help me, my academics are of no use lol.
No wonder you have a sences of humour then, theology.
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A good cheap pump is the tam105 from Machine Mart.
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Hi and welcome.
My advice to you is, go to your local spots stop and invest in a good pair of running shoes,
put them on your feet observing that you have right and left in the correct configuration.
Then, and only then, run like hell, run as far as you can away from anything slightly bio/veg related.
Bio is a drug, worse than heroin, it'll consume your entire life, destroy any friendships you have, leave all of your clothes with irremovable stains, your car will slowly but surely self destruct starting with wiper blades then moving on to just about every other part, apart from the parts that get covered in veg/bio (and this will be most of it) as they will never ever rust as once it's on there satin himself cannot get it off.
You will only take one solace from bio, the divine right to be smug every time you pass a tax station.
Ah yes, GL is the way to go, fully flexible to follow whatever method you or your oil supply choose (and believe me your oil will dictate how you do things).
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Oi Mark, are you using that addictive text, local spots stop?
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Oi Mark, are you using that addictive text, local spots stop?
"Spot Stop" is what he uses to get veg oil marks off his jeans. Having the displeasure of meeting him occasionally, as I do, I have to say it doesn't work.
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Welcome to the forum, you'll enjoy it here. If you can find somebody not too far from you who is already brewing, try to spend a few hours with them (I think you have to take a packet of biscuits) as a live demonstration is invaluable.
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A good cheap pump is the tam105 from Machine Mart.
Thanks, I have been looking out for Tam 105/120's, Leo XKM60's and Mono Ms's (at bargain prices on ebay) as the wiki suggests. But I have heard mention on the forum of CMS 221's, Mono MM and ML's, JGS's, Stuart Turner's, Ebara's, Sea Land's, Jex M's, Lowara's, Telerini's, Calpeda's, Crompton Greave's and more ha. Just not sure if the latter would be suitable for the batch size I'm hoping to create and how these pumps serve different purposes.
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Hi and welcome.
My advice to you is, go to your local spots stop and invest in a good pair of running shoes,
put them on your feet observing that you have right and left in the correct configuration.
Then, and only then, run like hell, run as far as you can away from anything slightly bio/veg related.
Bio is a drug, worse than heroin, it'll consume your entire life, destroy any friendships you have, leave all of your clothes with irremovable stains, your car will slowly but surely self destruct starting with wiper blades then moving on to just about every other part, apart from the parts that get covered in veg/bio (and this will be most of it) as they will never ever rust as once it's on there satin himself cannot get it off.
Hilarious! I couldn't stop laughing!
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Welcome to the forum, you'll enjoy it here. If you can find somebody not too far from you who is already brewing, try to spend a few hours with them (I think you have to take a packet of biscuits) as a live demonstration is invaluable.
Thanks, that was going to be my next question, Is there any way to search a list of members on this forum in order to get in contact with people in the North Cornwall/ North Devon area?
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In a 100 ltr tank the biggest batch you'll do is 60 - 70 ltrs. Think in terms of oil + expansion + methoxide + ullage space.
Experience shows you get far quicker complete processing if you use a large pump, say circa twice the oil volume/min.
Again from experience, the Leo pumps seem to be overrated, producing far less volume than stated.
Monos are no good as a processing pump. Way too low capacity and far too gentle with what it's pumping, but well worth having for moving stuff around if you can find a cheap one.
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Welcome to the forum, you'll enjoy it here. If you can find somebody not too far from you who is already brewing, try to spend a few hours with them (I think you have to take a packet of biscuits) as a live demonstration is invaluable.
Thanks, that was going to be my next question, Is there any way to search a list of members on this forum in order to get in contact with people in the North Cornwall/ North Devon area?
Go to members, search members, check only "search by location" type in the area you're looking for, town or county etc and you should get a list.
Probably posting your request on the forum will be good enough, there are several experienced brewers in your part of the world.
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Welcome to biopowered staphoent
There is no rehab from biodiesel, are you sure you want to do this?
Glad to hear you're studying theology, we all have a tenuous relationship with the veg oil god - sometimes good, sometimes bad, but mostly very sticky.
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Here's a cheap pump, I've just had one delivered and it's identical to a Leo xkm60.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151112-Centrifugal-Peripheral-1-2-HP-Water-Pump-For-Home-Pond-Garden-Farm-Tank-/291045806976?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item43c3ae9380
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That's a bargain, well found Jim
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That pump has a plastic impeller do not know how long it will last with hot bio.
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I'll have it apart tomorrow then and see if a brass one fits.
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I will shortly have a Calpeda 40 lpm pump available, pretty cheap.
It's a bit like a TAM / Leo but nicer build quality / easier to strip when blocked / better port orientation, too.
I'm upgrading to a Calpeda 70 lpm, is why.
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I'm near Langport and will give a demonstration in return for chocolate biscuits. That said, I'm currently in Christchurch, Nz.
My advice on the pump would be to get the biggest you can... Or be prepared to use an eductor. IIt'll make the reaction so much easier.
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I'm currently in Christchurch, Nz.
You jammy jammy b*******, I'm trying not to be envious :)
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In a 100 ltr tank the biggest batch you'll do is 60 - 70 ltrs. Think in terms of oil + expansion + methoxide + ullage space.
Experience shows you get far quicker complete processing if you use a large pump, say circa twice the oil volume/min.
Again from experience, the Leo pumps seem to be overrated, producing far less volume than stated.
Monos are no good as a processing pump. Way too low capacity and far too gentle with what it's pumping, but well worth having for moving stuff around if you can find a cheap one.
Right, that makes sense. Ok thanks for the information, ill keep that in mind
Welcome to the forum, you'll enjoy it here. If you can find somebody not too far from you who is already brewing, try to spend a few hours with them (I think you have to take a packet of biscuits) as a live demonstration is invaluable.
Thanks, that was going to be my next question, Is there any way to search a list of members on this forum in order to get in contact with people in the North Cornwall/ North Devon area?
Go to members, search members, check only "search by location" type in the area you're looking for, town or county etc and you should get a list.
Probably posting your request on the forum will be good enough, there are several experienced brewers in your part of the world.
Ok thanks ill do that now
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Welcome to biopowered staphoent
There is no rehab from biodiesel, are you sure you want to do this?
Glad to hear you're studying theology, we all have a tenuous relationship with the veg oil god - sometimes good, sometimes bad, but mostly very sticky.
Haha, well if I had some control over this urge to create biodiesel, given the warnings I would probably opt out. Seeing as I am unable, I will have to let the bug carry me as it leads ha.
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I will shortly have a Calpeda 40 lpm pump available, pretty cheap.
It's a bit like a TAM / Leo but nicer build quality / easier to strip when blocked / better port orientation, too.
I'm upgrading to a Calpeda 70 lpm, is why.
Ok thanks Glycer-rides, I would appreciate that, please let me know when its free.
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I'm near Langport and will give a demonstration in return for chocolate biscuits. That said, I'm currently in Christchurch, Nz.
My advice on the pump would be to get the biggest you can... Or be prepared to use an eductor. IIt'll make the reaction so much easier.
Thanks Sir, langport is about 100m from me but let me know when you get back and ill see if I can get out there and find some Fox's Caramel Chocolate Chunkie Cookies to accompany me on my way.
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I'm near Langport and will give a demonstration in return for chocolate biscuits. That said, I'm currently in Christchurch, Nz.
My advice on the pump would be to get the biggest you can... Or be prepared to use an eductor. IIt'll make the reaction so much easier.
Thanks Sir, langport is about 100m from me but let me know when you get back and ill see if I can get out there and find some Fox's Caramel Chocolate Chunkie Cookies to accompany me on my way.
Mmm, if I transported such a biscuit there is little chance they would all reach their destination :)
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I'm in South East Cornwall (between Liskeard and Saltash) and have a rough idea what I am doing with this bio stuff
If you want to come down at some point and have a look / ask a few questions then be my guest.
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... and have a rough idea what I am doing with this bio stuff ...
Boasting again! We'll have to get you your own trumpet.
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Boasting again! We'll have to get you your own trumpet.
Oi, this forum ain't big enough for two Trumpets.
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Boasting again! We'll have to get you your own trumpet.
Oi, this forum ain't big enough for two Trumpets.
Put your handbag down grumpy, Jules's trumpet is like one of those kids plastic ones compared to yours.
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I was only trying to help the guy and I get accused of being a trumpeteer :)
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I was only trying to help the guy and I get accused of being a trumpeteer :)
Don't worry Jules, that Julian just likes picking on anyone better at brewing, it's all sour grapes.
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I'm in South East Cornwall (between Liskeard and Saltash) and have a rough idea what I am doing with this bio stuff
If you want to come down at some point and have a look / ask a few questions then be my guest.
Perfect, I will be in touch soon so that we can work something out.
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To all the wiki contributors- AWESOME WIKI!
I've read some articles more than ten times and have printed out a hard copy of about half of the bio ones! ha
However, One thing I can seem to work out is the specifics for choosing between copper pipe diameters. Is this for the most part determined by things such as the pump you use, the amount of oil being processed etc? Or is there one common diameter that is most suitable for the majority of pipework?
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Unless you choose to build some kind of super sized plant, 22mm pipe will do the job. If you really want to make things easy on your pump, run 28mm from the bottom of the processor to the pump and 22mm on the discharge side.
If you decide to use steel pipework instead of copper (as I have), then 1" is plenty big enough.
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Unless you choose to build some kind of super sized plant, 22mm pipe will do the job. If you really want to make things easy on your pump, run 28mm from the bottom of the processor to the pump and 22mm on the discharge side.
If you decide to use steel pipework instead of copper (as I have), then 1" is plenty big enough.
Awsome, thanks! Steel sounds good to me, I wasnt aware of the option.
BTW, is something like this any good for pumping oil through a filter rig?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/grundfos-15-50-central-heating-pump-/251452836468?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3a8bc1ca74
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Cental heating pumps have very little power when it meets any kind of resistance.
It'd be ok for running a condenser if you go for a GL.
What's this oil filter rig you speak of and what's it for?
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Generally agree with Jules, but be guided to a certain extent by your pump connection sizes. Many people use TAMs etc with 1" connections, so 22 mm will be OK, but with bigger pumps consider using 28mm at least for the suction.
The other reason for 22mm being a common choice is that benders for 22mm are readily available and easy to use. Start trying to bend 28mm and you're looking at a serious bit of kit and muscle to bend it ... bent and swept bends being preferable to solder-on elbows.
If looking at steel pipe, have a think around car exhaust pipe. I'm considering this for my long awaited processor rebuild. For the pressures we use, you don't need a heavy schedule pipe. Nice smooth bends can be bought at reasonable prices, many different diameters are available and you could even use stainless if you wish. Down side is that all joints will need welding and you'll have to acquire flanges for points where the pipework will need dismantling.
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Cental heating pumps have very little power when it meets any kind of resistance.
It'd be ok for running a condenser if you go for a GL.
What's this oil filter rig you speak of and what's it for?
Well, I have started attempting to build the rig found here: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Waste_oil_filtering_system
I was under the impression that wvo needed to be filtered down to 5 or 1 micron before reacting? Am I wrong?
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Errr, you don't have to weld steel pipe, you can still solder it.
Use old oil tins to make couplings out of.
The only problem I can see with exhaust is valves and how you'd connect them.
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Generally agree with Jules, but be guided to a certain extent by your pump connection sizes. Many people use TAMs etc with 1" connections, so 22 mm will be OK, but with bigger pumps consider using 28mm at least for the suction.
The other reason for 22mm being a common choice is that benders for 22mm are readily available and easy to use. Start trying to bend 28mm and you're looking at a serious bit of kit and muscle to bend it ... bent and swept bends being preferable to solder-on elbows.
If looking at steel pipe, have a think around car exhaust pipe. I'm considering this for my long awaited processor rebuild. For the pressures we use, you don't need a heavy schedule pipe. Nice smooth bends can be bought at reasonable prices, many different diameters are available and you could even use stainless if you wish. Down side is that all joints will need welding and you'll have to acquire flanges for points where the pipework will need dismantling.
Hmm interesting, thanks a lot, I will do a bit more thinking along the exhaust pipe line (excuse the pun ha).
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I was under the impression that wvo needed to be filtered down to 1 micron before reacting? Am I wrong?
Fraid so young man, a flour sieve is ample. I filter at 200mic coz thats the size my free filter is.
You only need to get the big lumps out, fag ends, chips, dead rodents, bits of fingers etc etc.
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I was under the impression that wvo needed to be filtered down to 1 micron before reacting? Am I wrong?
Fraid so young man, a flour sieve is ample. I filter at 200mic coz thats the size my free filter is.
You only need to get the big lumps out, fag ends, chips, dead rodents, bits of fingers etc etc.
Haha, not too much harm done yet, I have got three steel barrels and built a few stands. Surely filtering is necessary after reaction then?
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Hmm interesting, thanks a lot, I will do a bit more thinking along the exhaust pipe line (excuse the pun ha).
As it'll be your first plant don't make things difficult for yourself, stick with copper pipe. It's readily available and all the valves and fittings you'll need are off the shelf.
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Haha, not too much harm done yet, I have got three steel barrels and built a few stands. Surely filtering is necessary after reaction then?
Mmmmmmmmmm, that's a moot point as well, some go right over the top when finishing/polishing their bio but me, I just use a J-cloth.
The family all run Common rail engines without issue.
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Ah, pre reaction filtering ... big differences of opinion here, and I seem to be in the minority. However I'll state my case of which I'm certain as Frank would say.
I filter through mesh (a bit finer than a flour sieve) then through landscaping fabric and then settle for as long as possible prior to reacting. The reason being I recon all the food particles and bits of crud harbour water. You want clean, dry oil for the reaction. Why, for very little effort in removing it, do you want to contaminate with food waste?
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Haha, not too much harm done yet, I have got three steel barrels and built a few stands. Surely filtering is necessary after reaction then?
Mmmmmmmmmm, that's a moot point as well, some go right over the top when finishing/polishing their bio but me, I just use a J-cloth.
The family all run Common rail engines without issue.
Hmm ok, I will have to do some more thinking. I am currently driving an Audi A3 2004 1.9TDi but selling soon. Going to by a 4x4 of some sort.
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Ah, pre reaction filtering ... big differences of opinion here, and I seem to be in the minority. However I'll state my case of which I'm certain as Frank would say.
I filter through mesh (a bit finer than a flour sieve) then through landscaping fabric and then settle for as long as possible prior to reacting. The reason being I recon all the food particles and bits of crud harbour water. You want clean, dry oil for the reaction. Why, for very little effort in removing it, do you want to contaminate with food waste?
Right, Well maybe creating a filter rig will give me some experience fitting piping, immersion heaters and pumps before I get a chance to visit some of the members set-ups and fit my reactor. Do you heat before settling?
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I only roughly course filter, then settle in a 1100l tank before making my bio. There is a water takeoff below the level that I use to pump into the processor.
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I did leave a chunk out of my pre reaction regime, the settling bit.
My feedstock sits for at least a month before filtering to 200u then in a storage tank for another month or so before it
goes into my drying/pre heat tank, by the time it's ready for reaction there's next to nothing by the way of BCBs.
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I did leave a chunk out of my pre reaction regime, the settling bit.
My feedstock sits for at least a month before filtering to 200u then in a storage tank for another month or so before it
goes into my drying/pre heat tank, by the time it's ready for reaction there's next to nothing by the way of BCBs.
Well that makes sense, when I get up and running I wont have that long to settle my oil as I am only processing in batches of about 60L (100L reactor capacity) so I am now thinking of having a barrel fitted with a 'barrel drum filter' of 200m (Ill pour my oil into this), letting it settle for a week, draining off the bottom and then pumping it through some cartridge filters and into the pre reactor tank. Does that worthwhile and reasonable?
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I don't heat liquid oil before the start of processing ie final dewatering in the processor. The only stuff I heat is whites which go into a separate heated tank (as seen on the wiki) for a preliminary dewater. Good oil yielded is pumped off the top and when there's enough crud I'll process in one batch.
For longer settling, have two settling tanks. Decant off the top of one into another. Once both are full, the through put frequency will be the same, but double the settling time.
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Forget the cartridge filters, they're a Pita, use the j cloth system, much easier and far less messing about.
Tesco Daizy cloths are as good as 5u and if you're really fussy you can have a new filter every time.
I've just filtered 200ltr through one and it'll do another 200 and all for about 5p.
Like Julian says, all of my pre reaction filtering is done at ambient.
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You need to get the lumps out before you process or you'll block your pump. I settle my oil in a barrel which has a floating pick up (basically hose pipe going from the bottom outlet up to a float off a toilet cistern valve). All the crud sinks to the bottom and the floating pick up draws from just under the top, so what I draw out is clean. I have a 200 micron filter between the settling tank and the processor, but it hasn't ever shown any sign of blocking so I assume the settling rather than the filter is doing the work. I have a different tap on the bottom of the barrel so that eventually I can drain off cruddy oil at the bottom and start again with a clean barrel.
The GL design is the best, but it's been improved in some ways by people on the forums and GL hasn't incorporated the best changes into his plans. Two changes that I think are important to make are 1. GL shows the Venturi horizontally just before the top entrance to the reactor. That works sometimes but not reliably. The Venturi should be mounted vertically. 2. The plumbers delight condensor isn't much good. People put a multi plate still heat exchanger before the condensor using the return air from the bottom of the condensor for the "cold" side on the heat exchanger. I made that modification myself and it did wonders for the efficiency of the condensor.
I suspect that using a heat exchanger this way is putting a patch over what was a bad design in the first place, and that you could ditch the plumbers delight condensor altogether and just use the heat exchanger as a condensor with the cooling water going through the "cold" side of the condensor. I think someone on here uses two heat exchangers, one to reheat the return air in the vapour circuit and one as a condensor. Basically I don't think the plumbers delight condensor is up to the job so I'd recommend you research around how people have improved that side of things.
If you do decide to use a heat exchanger, find yourself one with threaded ports so that you can connect it to your pipe work with threaded to compression fittings (assuming you are using copper pipe). Some Worcester Bosch units have threaded ports or failing that there used to be a German company on eBay who sold generic heat exchangers with threaded ports.
As a final point for a newbie, please take proper care with the chemicals. Methanol is nasty stuff. They're not kidding with the warnings they put on it. Same goes for Kaoh.
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Yes you are. You only need to filter enough not to clog up your pump. No more is necessary. Pretty much all of the stuff in the oil will drop out with the glyc.
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I don't heat liquid oil before the start of processing ie final dewatering in the processor. The only stuff I heat is whites which go into a separate heated tank (as seen on the wiki) for a preliminary dewater. Good oil yielded is pumped off the top and when there's enough crud I'll process in one batch.
For longer settling, have two settling tanks. Decant off the top of one into another. Once both are full, the through put frequency will be the same, but double the settling time.
I see, that makes sense. I guess its worth doing if settling and draining does the same thing as filtering.
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Forget the cartridge filters, they're a Pita, use the j cloth system, much easier and far less messing about.
Tesco Daizy cloths are as good as 5u and if you're really fussy you can have a new filter every time.
I've just filtered 200ltr through one and it'll do another 200 and all for about 5p.
Like Julian says, all of my pre reaction filtering is done at ambient.
Ha sounds a lot more cost effective, are you refering to the J-cloths found in placed in catridge filters found on this page:
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Tips_and_wrinkles_1#J_cloth_wrapped_filter
or the J-cloth 'net' constructed with coat-hangers found here:
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/J_Cloth_bag_filters?
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Yes you are. You only need to filter enough not to clog up your pump. No more is necessary. Pretty much all of the stuff in the oil will drop out with the glyc.
Ok thanks, when you say 'You only need to filter enough not to clog up your pump', what micron size are you referring to?
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That is dependent on the pump. The open impeller ones can handle quite a lot. The more powerful ones tend to be closed impeller and they can block with bigger lumps or snag fibrous material on the impeller edges. But small particulate matter won't affect them, so really only very basic filtering is needed (think mesh rather than micron!)
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Mickindashed is right about some people are using two heat exchangers, it's getting quite a common practice.
The first is known as a SHHE (still head heat exchanger) this not only helps reduce the load on the condenser but also re-heats the returning gasses (remember the GL system circulates the same air around the system without introducing any more), the plus side of this is there's less demand placed upon the heater, so less energy used.
The second is the condenser it's self.
Some of us have made our own updated version of the standard PD, this has four or five cores nestled into a single water jacket, these are known as quad or multi cores.
However I can't find a section for these on the wiki (I'm sure it's there, if not maybe we need to write one).
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You need to get the lumps out before you process or you'll block your pump. I settle my oil in a barrel which has a floating pick up (basically hose pipe going from the bottom outlet up to a float off a toilet cistern valve). All the crud sinks to the bottom and the floating pick up draws from just under the top, so what I draw out is clean. I have a 200 micron filter between the settling tank and the processor, but it hasn't ever shown any sign of blocking so I assume the settling rather than the filter is doing the work. I have a different tap on the bottom of the barrel so that eventually I can drain off cruddy oil at the bottom and start again with a clean barrel.
The GL design is the best, but it's been improved in some ways by people on the forums and GL hasn't incorporated the best changes into his plans. Two changes that I think are important to make are 1. GL shows the Venturi horizontally just before the top entrance to the reactor. That works sometimes but not reliably. The Venturi should be mounted vertically. 2. The plumbers delight condensor isn't much good. People put a multi plate still heat exchanger before the condensor using the return air from the bottom of the condensor for the "cold" side on the heat exchanger. I made that modification myself and it did wonders for the efficiency of the condensor.
I suspect that using a heat exchanger this way is putting a patch over what was a bad design in the first place, and that you could ditch the plumbers delight condensor altogether and just use the heat exchanger as a condensor with the cooling water going through the "cold" side of the condensor. I think someone on here uses two heat exchangers, one to reheat the return air in the vapour circuit and one as a condensor. Basically I don't think the plumbers delight condensor is up to the job so I'd recommend you research around how people have improved that side of things.
If you do decide to use a heat exchanger, find yourself one with threaded ports so that you can connect it to your pipe work with threaded to compression fittings (assuming you are using copper pipe). Some Worcester Bosch units have threaded ports or failing that there used to be a German company on eBay who sold generic heat exchangers with threaded ports.
As a final point for a newbie, please take proper care with the chemicals. Methanol is nasty stuff. They're not kidding with the warnings they put on it. Same goes for Kaoh.
That sounds like a good idea Where do you purchase one of these 'floating pickups' from?
Thanks for the information on the GL design changes, I will do some more research/asking questions about the heat exchangers and their different designs.
Ive heard some bad things about methanol so I will be trying to keep the methanol encapsulated as possible!
Thanks for your advice
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There is a benefit to working with Methanol, Ethanol is the antidote.
I take 1/2 a bottle of the red medicine the night before a batch, 1/2 on the night it happens and perhaps a visit to the medicine shop (pub) the night after.
You can't be too careful with Methanol can you.
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There is a benefit to working with Methanol, Ethanol is the antidote.
I take 1/2 a bottle of the red medicine the night before a batch, 1/2 on the night it happens and perhaps a visit to the medicine shop (pub) the night after.
You can't be too careful with Methanol can you.
I know look at how biohazard turned out, poor chap.
Since taking up bio I always have a medicinal nightcap or 4 at the weekend, even when I'm not brewing. Better safe than sorry, especially with my plastic bomb processor.
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That sounds like a good idea Where do you purchase one of these 'floating pickups' from?
Thanks for the information on the GL design changes, I will do some more research/asking questions about the heat exchangers and their different designs.
Ive heard some bad things about methanol so I will be trying to keep the methanol encapsulated as possible!
Thanks for your advice
Get an oil barrel. Not the kind with a removable lid, just the regular design. It has two holes in the top with screw threads. Turn it upside down so the top is now the bottom. Cut out what is now the top with a jigsaw. Now you've got a 220 litre open top tank with two holes in the bottom. The big hole has a 2 inch bsp thread and the little one has a 3/4 inch bsp hole. Get a metal 2" to 3/4" reducer and screw it into the big hole with some ptfe tape. You now have two 3/4" holes in the bottom of your barrel.
Buy three 3/4" bsp to 22mm compression fittings. Screw one of them into the little hole in the barrel put a stub of pipe into the compression fitting and a ball valve underneath. Now you have a pipe to tap off from the bottom of the barrel. Screw the other two 3/4" to 22mm fittings into the top and bottom of the 2" to 3/4" reducer and put a stub of pipe into each compression fitting. Put a ball valve at the bottom. Inside the barrel, put some hose onto the stub of pipe and secure it with a jubilee clip. The hose is going to run to the floating pick up.
The floating pick up is just a bit of bent pipe shoved in the end of the hose and secured somehow to a float. I used the float off a toilet valve. Plumbase will sell you one for about 99p. When you fill up the tank with oil the float will sit up on the top with the bit of bent pipe hanging just below. When you open the valve, the hose is drawing from a point about 2" below the top of the waste oil. So long as your waste oil has had a bit of time to settle, anything light will have floated to the top (in other words above where you are drawing oil from) or fallen to the bottom - that's below where you are drawing from. Every so often you can draw off, say, 20L of the crap from the tap that draws from the bottom, filter it, and put it back in the tank - but if you are taking 100L fills from a 200 L tank and you keep the tank brimming it'll be ages before you need to worry about that.
My oil comes out totally clear after a few weeks settling with no work on my part and no dirty filters. Have a look at the settling page on vegoilcar.co.uk.
By the way, don't mess around with 60L batches. Once you are up and running making bio will turn into a chore just like any other, so you might as well make a 100L + batch and save yourself having to brew up all the time.
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That sounds like a good idea Where do you purchase one of these 'floating pickups' from?
Thanks for the information on the GL design changes, I will do some more research/asking questions about the heat exchangers and their different designs.
Ive heard some bad things about methanol so I will be trying to keep the methanol encapsulated as possible!
Thanks for your advice
Get an oil barrel. Not the kind with a removable lid, just the regular design. It has two holes in the top with screw threads. Turn it upside down so the top is now the bottom. Cut out what is now the top with a jigsaw. Now you've got a 220 litre open top tank with two holes in the bottom. The big hole has a 2 inch bsp thread and the little one has a 3/4 inch bsp hole. Get a metal 2" to 3/4" reducer and screw it into the big hole with some ptfe tape. You now have two 3/4" holes in the bottom of your barrel.
Buy three 3/4" bsp to 22mm compression fittings. Screw one of them into the little hole in the barrel put a stub of pipe into the compression fitting and a ball valve underneath. Now you have a pipe to tap off from the bottom of the barrel. Screw the other two 3/4" to 22mm fittings into the top and bottom of the 2" to 3/4" reducer and put a stub of pipe into each compression fitting. Put a ball valve at the bottom. Inside the barrel, put some hose onto the stub of pipe and secure it with a jubilee clip. The hose is going to run to the floating pick up.
The floating pick up is just a bit of bent pipe shoved in the end of the hose and secured somehow to a float. I used the float off a toilet valve. Plumbase will sell you one for about 99p. When you fill up the tank with oil the float will sit up on the top with the bit of bent pipe hanging just below. When you open the valve, the hose is drawing from a point about 2" below the top of the waste oil. So long as your waste oil has had a bit of time to settle, anything light will have floated to the top (in other words above where you are drawing oil from) or fallen to the bottom - that's below where you are drawing from. Every so often you can draw off, say, 20L of the crap from the tap that draws from the bottom, filter it, and put it back in the tank - but if you are taking 100L fills from a 200 L tank and you keep the tank brimming it'll be ages before you need to worry about that.
My oil comes out totally clear after a few weeks settling with no work on my part and no dirty filters. Have a look at the settling page on vegoilcar.co.uk.
By the way, don't mess around with 60L batches. Once you are up and running making bio will turn into a chore just like any other, so you might as well make a 100L + batch and save yourself having to brew up all the time.
Thanks for the Advice,
Your instructions would make things a lot easier. My question is, Does the floating pick-up essentially do the same thing as using having an outlet 3/4 of the way down on the side of the barrel (after you have drained form the bottom), or is there further advantage to the floating pick-up.
After thinking it through, I would prefer to make 100L+ batches, however the benefit of the 100L gas bottle is that it has a conical bottom and was free! I don't have the facilities to make or the finances to buy a steel barrel with a conical bottom.
BTW, approximately how much pipe (in length) would I need to create a set-up with 2 45 gallon settling tanks and one GL styled reactor? I was hoping to pick some up today
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The floating pick up does basically the same thing as having a tap 3/4 of the way down on the side of your wvo tank. The advantage of doing it the way I told you is that doing it my way makes use of the existing holes in the barrel. If you fit a tap to the side of a barrel that's one more hole to drill and something else that might leak. As for how much pipe you need, I suggest you don't start buy a couple of metres to begin with and take it from there once you've got going with the build and you can eyeball what you need next. In case nobody said it earlier, the best option for your Venturi is the dickjotec design - it works and it's a lot easier than the other options. Have you had a look for an old hot water tank? If you can find one it'll save you a lot of hassle because the heater's already fitted and all but one of your connections are ready made.