Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: hifly on June 21, 2011, 12:22:43 PM

Title: non titration 2 stage
Post by: hifly on June 21, 2011, 12:22:43 PM
I have make a page for non titration processing by editing the data from the 2 stage page , let me know if its ok of if i have done somthing wrong.

you may want to check my spelling and add a few back links.

Cheers

hifly

Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Tony on June 21, 2011, 01:52:12 PM
Hey looks good!  ;D

Linky: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Two_stage_process_with_no_titration

I've resaved the front page so it's automatically included in the list of links.

I've also tidied the page up a bit, nothing drastic though.
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 21, 2011, 02:58:56 PM
very nice chap!  8)
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Julian on June 21, 2011, 06:57:23 PM
Nice page, well done Vince.

There's a bit of a discrepancy with the 3/27 page which says the test isn't quantitative.  It's a point on which I've never been sure and have seen people upholding both points of view.
If it works as Vince describes we may need to modify the 3/27 page.
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: hifly on June 21, 2011, 09:53:47 PM
the last time it was talked about on the veg forum a number of people came out of the woodwork saying they did just as i had said and it worked fine.

It may not be quantative but also titrations don't take account of any water or other stuff thats in the oil so i think they are also not quantative even though we spend so much time and effort trying to be as accurate as possible.

I may change the wording to say that many people dismiss this methode but normally not the one who have tried it.
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 21, 2011, 09:59:26 PM
yes maybe a good piont to change, cover all bases...
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Julian on June 21, 2011, 11:34:20 PM
I don't really know enough to make a judgment, I currently just 2 stage process to achieve a clear pass,  however I think it's important that the wiki doesn't offer conflicting information.  Vince, your system obviously works so it must, to a degree at least, be quantitative.  How about both pages use the term "indicative of percentage conversion" or something similar?

Tony, you put the 3/27 page together ... any thoughts?
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Tony on June 22, 2011, 01:26:14 AM
"Not quantitive, but good enough to work in this situation"?
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2011, 08:41:18 AM
quantum leap

 ;D
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: StevieboyTD on July 13, 2011, 11:00:07 AM
Just wondering if it's possible to expand part 5 "Determine the amount of unprocessed oil in your batch from the dropout." to give a couple of sums as to what i measure and what i do with the numbers.

27/3, measure 1.2ml of dropout, my initial batch was 50L of oil, where do i go from there? (that sort of thing!)

Cheers
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Tony on July 13, 2011, 11:09:44 AM
Good idea.

This is the part in question:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Two_stage_process_with_no_titration#The_process

Determine the amount of unprocessed oil in your batch from the dropout.

Make up the second stage Methoxide by mixing "20% batch size Methanol" with "unprocessed oil volume x base" catalyst.


So I guess if you have 1.2ml in 3ml, that's 40% unconverted, or 20l unconverted from a batch of 50l.

So you'd need 20% of 20l in Methanol (4l) and 5g NaOH * 20l (100g) catalyst?

Hifly can you confirm this this correct?
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: hifly on July 13, 2011, 10:38:10 PM
a calculator was done by someone, here is a link

http://www.mediafire.com/?zd8diwrz35asns7

the only thing unclear about it is where it says % meth used, it means % meth for second stage

here is the thread i got the link from.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24395&page=1#pid273916

If there are any more questions it will be best to e-mail me as i'm getting fed up with the atitude of some forum members so won't be visiting the veg forum for the forseeable future.
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: Tony on July 14, 2011, 09:35:30 AM
Sorry to hear that Vince :(

I'm thinking about giving this no-titration lark a shot for my next batch too.
Title: Re: non titration 2 stage
Post by: K.H on July 14, 2011, 05:28:15 PM
a calculator was done by someone, here is a link

http://www.mediafire.com/?zd8diwrz35asns7

the only thing unclear about it is where it says % meth used, it means % meth for second stage

here is the thread i got the link from.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24395&page=1#pid273916

If there are any more questions it will be best to e-mail me as i'm getting fed up with the atitude of some forum members so won't be visiting the veg forum for the forseeable future.
Now we  have a chatter section i hope you will pop up from time to time on here Vince :)