Acetone to aid reaction !

[1958steveflying]

High Steve
0.5wt% if I got it right would be
100L oil x 79g per litre =79kg

79x .5% = 395 g

Think that's right just doing it in the van , will have to read more to see if this is the calc you want

Paul

Cheers Paul,   so for a 180 litre batch it would work out at 711g KoH  now I know what I am working towards.

[photoman290]

hopefully the  process should work just as well with ASM. is anyone trialing that yet? if it does work as well with ASM as KOH be interesting to see what the ASM amount comes out to. of course any extra ASM shouldn't matter should it? to make it viable financially the acetone meth mix would have to be recovered so any extra meth would be got back.
i am still not sure about the best way to recover the acetone/methanol mix.i favour reduced atmosphere low temperature but not sure if just  pumping the bio after the gly drop into another container and pulling a vacuum on it with a venturi as in GLs push pull system is worth the complexity.
 don't know if just heating the tank and letting the condenser do all the work would work ok on its own. if that would work it would be the simplest way of doing it.

something tells me heating bio containing 36% volatiles  is a bit more dangerous then the 12% or so meth in a "normal" batch of bio.

external water heating is a lot safer and doesn't have to add to much complexity to the system.

we could be jumping from home brew simple to chemical engineering  complex here.

[Julian]

I'm sure I read somewhere, some time ago that it was more economical to heat to remove Methanol than create a vacuum, it might have been GL.

[1958steveflying]

hopefully the  process should work just as well with ASM. is anyone trialing that yet? if it does work as well with ASM as KOH be interesting to see what the ASM amount comes out to. of course any extra ASM shouldn't matter should it? to make it viable financially the acetone meth mix would have to be recovered so any extra meth would be got back.
i am still not sure about the best way to recover the acetone/methanol mix.i favour reduced atmosphere low temperature but not sure if just  pumping the bio after the gly drop into another container and pulling a vacuum on it with a venturi as in GLs push pull system is worth the complexity.
 don't know if just heating the tank and letting the condenser do all the work would work ok on its own. if that would work it would be the simplest way of doing it.

something tells me heating bio containing 36% volatiles  is a bit more dangerous then the 12% or so meth in a "normal" batch of bio.

external water heating is a lot safer and doesn't have to add to much complexity to the system.

we could be jumping from home brew simple to chemical engineering  complex here.

My reactor is twin cone  water heated.. Phew !   I know I only had 1 litre Acetone and I assume it came out in the condensing process up to 90c.

No further Glyc dropped today ! ! !  previously Glyc dropped up to the 10th day so it seems not only did using the litre of Acetone in the reaction reduce the KoH needed but did in fact leave Bio that the Glyc dropped out of in 2 days.

It is bubbling now to drive off any residual Methanol and I am not able to get to it until Wed am when I will take a sample from the bottom and see what gives.

[Head Womble]

Be aware of using a vacuum in a normal drum,
this is a photo of a 60L steel drum subjected to a venturi (so not a full vacuum).



Notice how clean my setup is.

[photoman290]

i am planning to use a 47 kg N2 bottle. my problem is how do i keep the acetone out of the vacuum pump? actually i know the principle but not the practical. i know i need a cold trap but have no idea of the details of temperature or how long i need to keep it cold for. the plan is to take the valve out and  fit the condenser and  a tee to fill it so i don't have to make any more holes in the bottle. the vacuum pump will go on the end of the condenser. that's the plan anyway til someone comes up with a better one.

[Carrington]

Hi all
I will be trying a microbbatch with acetone tomorrow using my normal feedstock to see how it works for me , will also try it on some wvo using ASM.

Will try and read the info given so I can replicate it

Paul

[Tony]

Hi all
I will be trying a microbbatch with acetone tomorrow using my normal feedstock to see how it works for me , will also try it on some wvo using ASM.

Will try and read the info given so I can replicate it

Paul

I'm sure many of us will look forward to the results with bated breath

[jgs600]

looking forward to the results here, btw if using acetone i pressume it can be washed out with water if not being recovered.

[photoman290]

looking forward to the results here, btw if using acetone i pressume it can be washed out with water if not being recovered.

i am sure you can,but its quite expensive. £1.25 per litre so 25 ltrs on a 100 litre batch is £33.00 you are flushing away plus the meth as well. i know some say the meth is not worth recovering, but the acetone certainly is.

[thewormman]

At 65c I added 30 litres Meth with 750g KoH and 1 litre Acetone.

Doing lots of reading  and wondered this
Acetone boils at 56* would that not be a problem it being vapour not liquid?

Isn't that why in part in that research paper they tested at lower temps?

High Steve
0.5wt% if I got it right would be
100L oil x 79g per litre =79kg

79x .5% = 395 g

Think that's right just doing it in the van , will have to read more to see if this is the calc you want

Paul

Doesn't
100L oil x 79g per litre  equal 7900g or 7.9KG ?

[thewormman]

something tells me heating bio containing 36% volatiles  is a bit more dangerous then the 12% or so meth in a "normal" batch of bio.

12% Meth is just as likely to blow your head off if ignited 

Since Acetone boils at 56* and Methanol at 65* would it be possible to not only condense them off but do it in a controlled way and separate them? Isn't it called fractional distillation?

This company makes something to do this with Acetone

http://www.kcmouldings.co.uk/html/solventru.html

[photoman290]

something tells me heating bio containing 36% volatiles  is a bit more dangerous then the 12% or so meth in a "normal" batch of bio.

12% Meth is just as likely to blow your head off if ignited 

Since Acetone boils at 56* and Methanol at 65* would it be possible to not only condense them off but do it in a controlled way and separate them? Isn't it called fractional distillation?

This company makes something to do this with Acetone

http://www.kcmouldings.co.uk/html/solventru.html

agreed 12% meths is enough to blow your head off 36% might be enough to cause some damage.

 that unit is really no different to a gl processor. i a planning to recover the solvent under vacuum using hot water to heat a gas bottle. have a look a acetone/methanol azeotropes. this is what we will end up with. that vapourises at 60C.

[Carrington]

Hi all
I didn't get a chance to do any bench work today (more problems ) all going well will have a chance tomorrow.

[thewormman]

have a look a acetone/methanol azeotropes. this is what we will end up with. that vapourises at 60C.

Hmmm I didn't realise they wouldn't separate easily, but do they need to be separated or can whats recovered just be reused on the next batch?

Would there be a way to know the percentage of Meth/Acetone condensed off?

Bit out of my depth so forgive any stupid suggestions