Soaps/Acetone

[photoman290]

is there any other way to test for soaps that doesn't involve a colour change? looking at a sample under a microscope for instance. laser reflection spectroscopy? none of these need be expensive.

[nigelb]

If by your" comments" you mean "my quotes" then I stand by those as two very positve statements.

You don't need to add additional chemicals to a water wash process in order to lower the ppm's. Very positive statement

Recordable data over several batches is the bare minimum required in order to prove off a process. Another very positive statement.

Where is the negativity above?

Nige

[nathanrobo]

So anyway Steve / Mark do you think the acetone stays with the bio layer, meaning that no further acetone is require for the finished fuel (ie remain in solution)??   Would it flash off through the spray bar? Are there any inexpensive test methods?

[Head Womble]

I don't think I've ever made that statement about 50/50 tests Mark. Far too vague. If I have I would like to retract it. If you can find it anywhere let me know and I'll edit it.

Nige

Nige,
I, like most of us, do a lot of reading on here and the VOD,
I'm sure I've read something in that vain and thought it was posted by you.

Out of interest, and I know you've done a good amount of testing on this, what would you say a clear 50/50 test indicates as far as ppm levels.
I know I have tested one of mine at 76ppm.

I do appreciate your comments, and don't see them as negative, more of an independent view.
I can sometimes get carried away with my enthusiasm.

When I do my next batch, if I have time and some more IPA, I'll remove half the batch after the acid wash stage and do some back to back tests, standard pump washing V's acetone washing, doing titrated soap test along the way.

[Head Womble]

So anyway Steve / Mark do you think the acetone stays with the bio layer, meaning that no further acetone is require for the finished fuel (ie remain in solution)??   Would it flash off through the spray bar? Are there any inexpensive test methods?

I would have thought it evaporates off in the drying stage, or in my method anyway.
I take the bio up to 95C and condense off the remaining water, then pump it into the drying/storage tank and bubble overnight.

Hopefully when I build my next setup (on hold at pressent, due to funds) I'll have a heater in the drying tank so I can setup a defuser or spray bar and reduce the temps.

[nigelb]

Well at least you're still talking to me  Mark:)

Nathan...pick up your dummy. 

Mark. I wouldn't like to guess as to what levels of soap in PPM's are in a clear 50/50. Following my testing using water gathered from different parts of the country it is ultimately down to the water quality of that particular area.

Thankyou for your comments about my independant views.

Further to your last statement I would do a soap test after every stage to see how far they have been reduced. If you need more chemicalsin order to complete the testing let me know and I'll send some down FOC

Nige

[1958steveflying]

If by your" comments" you mean "my quotes" then I stand by those as two very positve statements.

You don't need to add additional chemicals to a water wash process in order to lower the ppm's. Very positive statement

Recordable data over several batches is the bare minimum required in order to prove off a process. Another very positive statement.

Where is the negativity above?

Nige

Nige I don't recall anyone saying using Acetone reduces the soap levels below that of water washing.

What it has shown to do is make the soap drop quicker and more complete seriously reducing the amount of washes needed.

And it's interactions with the reaction process are even more amazing.

[nigelb]

The implication...made by me...is that the reduction of soaps by use of acetone is a "speed"related process. This may or may not be the case, but only postive test results will prove it off. My view is that with careful washing via the bubble method will get you to low PPM's if done efficiently without the need for further intervention

Nige

[Head Womble]

Well at least you're still talking to me  Mark:)

Nathan...pick up your dummy. 

Mark. I wouldn't like to guess as to what levels of soap in PPM's are in a clear 50/50. Following my testing using water gathered from different parts of the country it is ultimately down to the water quality of that particular area.

Thankyou for your comments about my independant views.

Further to your last statement I would do a soap test after every stage to see how far they have been reduced. If you need more chemicalsin order to complete the testing let me know and I'll send some down FOC

Nige

Nige. I'm pretty easy going and it takes a lot to pee me off, you're nowhere close as yet mate 

As I've stated before, this forum only works to push things forward if we all add our thoughts and findings.
A wold of "yes men" would not progress in any way.

I do actually admire you, you're not afraid to post what I'm sure you realise may be taken as negative.

As far as chemicals goes I'll be putting in an order to Basic for some more meths, so I'll add IPA to that.
Thanks for the offer though.

In interests of moving forward, would you like to do some testing with acetone and bubble washing ?

[thewormman]

Has anyone seen this?

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2011/GC/c1gc15049a

Don't know if it is relevant to the discussion. Haven't bought the full pdf.
If its not relevant  just ignore me 

[kamaangir]

Yes photoman bought it I think, it is being looked at!

[jgs600]

just been reading this thread and its very interesting, would love to try this myself maybe as i both water wash and sometimes pump wash

[Head Womble]

I've had some promissing results so Far,
it would be great to see if you find it beneficial also.

Do you have one of Nige's soap test kits ?

[nigelb]

Mark..I think some people need to lay off tagging posts as negative. These are just different views which some don't like. A statement is a statement. The inference of negativity is often maligned and misunderstood.  As previously stated, it's a matter of perspective.

The offer of chemicals did not extend to IPA I'm afraid. I was infering the acid and Bromophenol blue. If you need any more of these during your testing then please let me know. No charge.

Glenn...if you don't have a kit let me know. In the interest of testing I'll send a kit to you FOC.

I'm not sure I want to get involved with testing. Purely for the reason that my methods really suit me at the moment. I've not even got involved with the acid water washing which has proved to be a huge leap forward in home brewing. I'm not sure I want to add unnecessary chemicals to my fuel in order to speed up the removal of soap. I've almost completed my batch from Saturday with 4 x 10lt washes on a 150lt. No additional chems used.

Nige

[Head Womble]

Nige. I have plenty of acid and Bromophenol blue left (still not half way through the first bottles).
But I could do with another 0.5ml syringe as I knocked it off the side and stood on it today while having a tidy up (a rare thing in my shed).

Once we've got the acetone pump washing down to a tee I'll do some bubble wash testing.