The lazyman process

[Tony]

Here he is



Anyway, onto a sample and it's 3/27 result - no sign of jelly:

[Julian]

I wouldn't bother using your little crane fly, they only live for two weeks anyway.

That could make you paranoid about meth levels.

No, he or she, (the crane fly) committed suicide in one of my settling barrels and has been submerged in Bio, in the filter for many months.  It would appear that Bio is quite a good preservative.

I was thinking about the live community of creepy crawlies.


Nice 3/27, Tony!

[Keef]

Hmm .... ok then, if cockroaches are immune to radiation, maybe other creepy crawlies are immune to methanol vapours.

Further tests needed.

[Julian]

Hmm .... ok then, if cockroaches are immune to radiation, maybe other creepy crawlies are immune to methanol vapours.

Further tests needed.

TONY ... stick that spider in a jar with some Methanol and report back.  Insect lovers look away now!

[Tony]

What and dilute my Meth with spider? Never I say!

Anyway, batch done, bubbling in the settle drum.  Might be lower yeild but it's hard to say as I drained the Glyc super-fast and probably will find some bio sitting on top of that tomorrow.

Happy with getting a single stage clear pass so easily, I know it would've jellied if I added prewash water but because I haven't all is OK (so far!)

[Tony]

Bubbled overnight, bio is now beautifully clear though soap test is cloudy; just needs to settle.  No jelly signs at all.

[Rossey]

Got some WVO up to 105C with plenty of time on the condenser so I think it's pretty dry.  Mixed Methoxide to titration amount plus 20% extra (on the total, not just titration) so we'll see how a single stage goes tomorrow.  Hopefully lazy days on getting a clear pass

How are you heating up to 105c, have you modded your immersion heater?
I remember seeing a guide on it but can't find it anywhere.

[Julian]

Graham Lambing details modifying an immersion heater thermostat on his site here ... http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/thermostat/thermostat.htm

Common practise now is to remove the thermostat and use a PID and SSR controller.

[Rossey]

Graham Lambing details modifying an immersion heater thermostat on his site here ... http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/thermostat/thermostat.htm

Common practise now is to remove the thermostat and use a PID and SSR controller.

Now I understand why you use them, cheers for the link 

[Tony]

Though I'm using a Burco capillary stat so the processor has an oven-style knob on it for temp

[Rossey]

Though I'm using a Burco capillary stat so the processor has an oven-style knob on it for temp

I've got an old burco, that's a brilliant idea

[Julian]

Tony, does the 2^nd graph down on this page ... http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1694 have any bearing on what you are doing.  Seems to indicate that high levels of catalyst lead to a very quick reaction at the expense of soap ... I think!

[Tony]

It's been a long time since I last saw that graph, you're really digging them up today Julian!

Their test seems to be with Sainsbury's Rapeseed.

Since 1l of Rapeseed weighs 910g;

0.5% w/w gives 4.55g KOH per litre
1% w/w gives 9.1g KOH per litre
2% gives 18.2g KOH per litre
4% gives 36.4g KOH per litre

Interesting to see the effects of concentrations over the 7g base many of us use.  But yes, essentially that's what I'm trying to achieve - enough catalyst to get a quick and easy single stage 3/27 pass without creating too much soap.  Which means using more than we'd normally expect to, on the provision the oil is nice and dry and we don't make things worse by adding water later in the process.  So far all has worked well so I'll be trying the same again next batch.  No titration single stage, the key is bone dry oil all the way through the process

[Keef]

So am I right in thinking that the lazyman process seems to work fine and the upsides are

1] you don't need to titrate
2] you are almost guaranteed a 27/3 pass in one stage

but the downsides are

1] You have to spend extra time/money ensuring your oil is completely dry
2] Your yield is lower
3] You make more soap
4] you end up with more glyc to dispose of and it's rock hard

[Tony]

So am I right in thinking that the lazyman process seems to work fine and the upsides are

1] you don't need to titrate
2] you are almost guaranteed a 27/3 pass in one stage

That's the plan, though I think it's good to have a rough idea of the oil's titration so the catalyst overdose isn't too massive.

but the downsides are

1] You have to spend extra time/money ensuring your oil is completely dry
2] Your yield is lower
3] You make more soap
4] you end up with more glyc to dispose of and it's rock hard

1] yes definitely - for my 125l batch I might use roughly an extra 4kWh to make sure it's toasty dry, which is somewhere between £0.50 to £1.00 depending on your tarrif (0.4-0.8 pence per litre).  Although it consumes more time to do this, it's not hands on time, in keeping with the "lazy" part of the process
2] apparently it should be lower yeild though I've not done enough batches with a good 25% overdose to really judge this
3] I've not noticed extra soap yet but I'm waiting on settling to see
4] 24h after completing the batch the glyc was still liquid, though usually after WBD all of my glyc sets solid eventually.  I'll check again next time I'm out both on the soap settling progress and the glyc solidity.

The way I look at it, the primary production cost is Methanol, which I'm recovering, so the cost of that part of the process won't change.

Sodium Hydroxide is about £25 per 25kg bag, and I'm using 200g over what I normally would (20 pence extra per batch or 0.16ppl).

So I'd say I'd be paying about 0.6 to 1ppl extra by this process, or 75p-£1.25 per 125l batch for the privilege of less effort.

I suppose I could mix up loads of Methoxide in advance since the same amount of catalyst would be used each time, that'd make life a little easier too.