sodium methylate

[Bio-boy]

Looking for some advise:

It has just been brought to my attention that an alternative for KOH/Sodium would be Sodium Methylate.

If I were to go for a zero titration 2 stage reaction of 600 litres of WVO I would ordinarily use 96 litres of Methanol and 3000g of Sodium/4200g of KOH for the 1st stage.

What quantity of ASM would I need to substitute the Sodium?

[nigelb]

All the information you require is on the wiki. If you purchase Sodium methylate make sure it's Anhydrous. The stuff I get is 30% ASM and I think that the wiki calculations are based on that figure.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Processing_with_anhydrous_sodium_methylate

[Bio-boy]

What's the price of ASM???

[nigelb]

£44.50 per 25 or £356 per drum. There is no discount for drum rates everything is based on the 25 price

[Bio-boy]

Based upon my last batch, having done the calculations it was cheaper to use KOH as opposed to ASM. That was calculated using a zero titration 2 stage reaction following Wiki.

[nigelb]

Sometimes it isn't about the cheapness of a product. With ASM it's about the convienience.

1. Easy to store.
2. Easy to use.
3. No exothermic reactions to deal with.
4. Doesn't go 'off' so long as the lid's on tight.
5. Easy to get hold of.
6. Doesn't generate water during reaction.
7. Better yield

[dgs]

This a subject of bio making that I know least about. I have a drum of ASM that I have been reluctant to use.
I have developed my glycerol pre-washing method, together with the ambient temperature reaction so that I now only use @ 4.6 gms KOH and a total of 13% methanol. Plus of course any chemicals taken from the glycerol. That being the case, it is of no use to me if the derived glycerol using ASM is solid, this would be a total waste of residual chemicals. Also I do not want to start using high amounts of methanol to keep it liquid.

I have been wondering if it is possible to blend KOH methoxide and ASM methoxide so a ratio was found whereby the benefits of ASM were achieved whilst still keeping the glycerol liquid because of the KOH present.

Any ideas on this anyone?

[Bio-boy]

KOH Glycerol is so much easier to dispose of with no chance of blocking pipework etc.

[Manfred]

I was using ASM from Nige untill last week. I found that adding 1 litre of meth to 15 glycol kept it liquid enough to pour, slightly gloopy at the bottom for the 3 weeks I kept it. When I had only 10 litres of glycol to use as a pre treatment I got some koh glycol from my mate. Mixed and used. When drained it didn't set, making it harder for me to recover any escaped oil. I find 1 litre of koh glycol into 15 ASM glycol was more than enough. Do you know anyone who uses NaOH to do a test for your own satisfaction. It works ok for me.

 Oh by the way. How big is the 650 litre ibc you got from Ample files. I been thinking about getting some if it will fit in my trailer.
 
      Ta Gaz.

[Manfred]

KOH Glycerol is so much easier to dispose of with no chance of blocking pipework etc.

 I'm back on the NaOH for now. It only goes solid if I let it. Drain when you can't watch it and add a litre of reclaim meth ready for the pre wash simples. Much cheaper as well. No going back to koh for me.

[therecklessengineer]

You can always add water to your hot drained glyc to keep it liquid. No good if you want to glyc wash mind...

[dgs]

You can always add water to your hot drained glyc to keep it liquid. No good if you want to glyc wash mind...

Ooh no, don't want to do that, good idea if you don't want to use the glyc.

OK, I've worked out that I am going to use @ 50/50 ASM/KOH. I will use 2.3gms KOH in @ 20.5 litres of methanol and add 1 litre of ASM. This will be mixed with oil that from the enhanced pre-wash is @ 20% converted.
Fingers crossed that the glycerol won't be solid.

[Manfred]

Should be ok. First time though keep an eye on it.

[dgs]

Will do. Thanks.