Author Topic: Water retaining gel for drying bio  (Read 6662 times)

Offline Julian

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Water retaining gel for drying bio
« on: December 24, 2014, 04:44:06 PM »
Still having trouble getting the last batch of bio completely dry.

I thought I'd dump some horticultural water retaining gel into a sample.  It worked amazingly well!  It was a "before your very eyes" result.  Within a few seconds the bio was completely clear ...





I bought the gel some time ago to try and dry methanol.  That was a failure but I can't think why I didn't  try drying bio.

This looks promising on a small scale.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 05:39:52 PM by Julian »
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 07:38:16 PM »
Has the gel expanded or is that the volume you started with?

It'd be interesting to know the H20 ppm and the minimum ratio of gell per litre required to dry.

Offline knighty

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 09:02:51 PM »
when you filter the gel out, are you going to try drying it with heat ?

would be great if it can be re-used ?

Offline Tony

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 10:00:21 PM »
K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results.  I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)

Offline Julian

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 10:41:12 PM »


Has the gel expanded or is that the volume you started with?

It'd be interesting to know the H20 ppm and the minimum ratio of gell per litre required to dry.

It's expanded a bit but to nowhere near a fraction of the volume when its fully saturated.  It still feels granular where as it's like frogspawn without the pips when fully saturated.

when you filter the gel out, are you going to try drying it with heat ?

would be great if it can be re-used ?

It would be good if it can be regenerated.  I'll certainly give it a try perhaps boxing day when the outlaw comes for dinner!



K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results.  I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)

I didn't know that, I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, sorry Keith ... can you add anything to my amateurish efforts to date?

I don't insist, but I do feel happier knowing it's been washed.  This is the first batch in several years that's shown a propensity to cling on to water ... I wonder what's with the bio that it does that?

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Offline greasemonkey

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2014, 12:08:42 PM »
You could try regenerating that jel with heat, but I think the best way would be to try and absorb the water out of it. Unlike the silica jel, it might not take to kindly to having the water evaporated out of it.
The silica is designed just to keep moisture down, whereas the horticultural stuff is designed to hold a big mass of water.

I'd be inclined to spread it out onto an absorbent towel or something. Basically, that is the way it's designed to work anyway, the soil absorbs the water out of it.
I think on some of it, it gives a six year working life.
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Offline photoman290

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2014, 12:46:54 PM »
you could try calcium chloride as well. cheap and easy to dry out with heat afterwards. i can send you some if you want to experiment. not sure what it would do to the IP though so don't blame me if it kills it.

Offline K.H

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2014, 01:02:00 PM »
Ah, give me a while to find / remember what i did, im sure Nige was about when we did it, i know i still have a bottle of unused gel on the shelf here

Offline John Galt

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 01:13:16 AM »
I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat.  Best addition to BD processing I can think of.

Offline Julian

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 01:37:51 AM »
I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat.  Best addition to BD processing I can think of.

Interesting, John.  Can you describe the process and equipment in detail please?

I had thoughts of containing the gel in some sort of filter housing and pumping the bio through it, but the ratio of expansion as it absorbs water would probably make the idea impractical, plus it would probably get carried out of the housing in the flow.  Is it just a case of lobbing it in a settling tank and mixing?

I found playing with beaker samples, stirring made quite a difference to the speed of absorption.

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Offline John Galt

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 02:28:18 AM »
I use Quik n' Dri. [no longer sold]
the same product is is also available as
http://www.watercrystals.com/
http://www.watersorb.com/
http://watergelcrystals.com/

A 5 gal water cooler jug with a wide hole cut in the bottom makes a good filter/dryer/funnel. The standard bag filters fit perfectly over the jug and hang through the hole. Optionally one can make a good bag filter out of the backs of old jeans legs. A universal water filter cartridge  holds the drying polymer and fits tightly in the neck of the jug. The inverted jug fits nicely into the bung opening of a 30 gal HDPE barrel. It takes about an hour for the 5 gal of mix to flow through the dryer column/filter funnel. As any water is absorbed the polymer swells to a jell [like cooked tapioca] and slows then stops the flow. When it takes more than a couple of hours to run through I know it's time to change the cartridge of polymer. I use a small 1/10hp 115v transfer pump to circulate the BD fuel mix from about a foot off the bottom of the 30 gal  barrel into the filter/funnel.

A Universal Water Filter cartridge fits into the neck of the jug.

The cartridge is easily disassembled, and the bag containing the water treatment particles removed to provide space for about 75ml of Q&D with headroom for expansion with the cap replaced.

This Q&D column is good assurance of dry fuel and as an indicator of moisture trapped.

The fuel mix of BD[50], kerosene (or seasonal pump diesel)[40] and petrol[10] is pumped from about 6" off the bottom of the storage barrel,  which is in my unheated fuel shed, through a 5µ filter cartridge and into the vehicle tank.  This cold filtering/settling method has eliminated the HMPEs that would otherwise settle out in the vehicle tank and clog the fuel pick-up screen.  This is the 4th winter using this method to prevent fuel system problems in below freezing temperatures.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 08:48:04 PM by John Galt »

Offline K.H

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 11:42:16 AM »
I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat.  Best addition to BD processing I can think of.

Interesting, John.  Can you describe the process and equipment in detail please?

I had thoughts of containing the gel in some sort of filter housing and pumping the bio through it, but the ratio of expansion as it absorbs water would probably make the idea impractical, plus it would probably get carried out of the housing in the flow.  Is it just a case of lobbing it in a settling tank and mixing?

I found playing with beaker samples, stirring made quite a difference to the speed of absorption.
I used one of these for the gel

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290713670527?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Offline Julian

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 08:49:08 PM »
Obviously this requires further play time.
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Offline John Galt

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 08:50:47 PM »
One can also make a simple upflow column from ABS or PVC plastic .

I used what I had available, and it worked well enough for my purpose.

Offline K.H

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Re: Water retaining gel for drying bio
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 09:26:00 PM »
K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results.  I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)
Just remembered! you were here as well  ;D
Wet oil, Nige and his magnetic stirrer, cleared an emulsion if i remember correctly
Then we had the bag that goes into bulk tanks to remove water, that failed