Author Topic: A 'crazy' idea for chemistry and process.  (Read 1460 times)

Offline julianf

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A 'crazy' idea for chemistry and process.
« on: June 21, 2013, 09:36:27 AM »
One of the side reactions (unwanted) that we have going on is the -

Acid + Base >> Salt + Water

reaction.  Its often called a "neutralisation" reaction.


Its why FFAs (free fatty acids) are the problem - not only do they take out the base (which would only be a catalyst in our main transesterification reaction - ie not used / taken out), but also the reaction itself creates water, which further goes on to mess things up in the second unwanted reaction - the saponification reaction (the one that makes soap)


I just had an idea - i have not thought about it that much, but here goes -

Hot oil can be dried by bulbing / spray bars etc.
Once the methoxide is added, this is when the neutralisation reaction would normally occur - but the oil cant be dried with air then, as the methanol would be lost.

What about separating the neutralisation reaction?

Say, for example, having a setup where the oil is heated, bubbled / sprayed or whatever, but, once hot and dry, a recirculating system can be added, where the oil is pumped through a canister of captive base?


This may not work in the slightest - ive never tried it.  The base may react with hot neutral oil.  Or the water liberated in the neutralisation may just saponify furiously (likly, i think) and create "a right mess".

...but maybe it may be possible with a much milder base than what we usually use?



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Offline Tony

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Re: A 'crazy' idea for chemistry and process.
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 03:49:02 PM »
The catalyst-in-a-can approach was mentioned once a while back on VOD but like you say the concern is not just dissolving it into the oil/methanol/water mix.  Empty tin then :)

I guess you could dip it into the hot oil/methanol in a big catalyst tea bag.  More bio vicar?

Offline high compression ii

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Re: A 'crazy' idea for chemistry and process.
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 04:54:54 PM »
Might be worth trying out with summit like Sodium Bicarbonate powder....
--That wont saponify the oil as far as I know, although if it works, will probably liberate moisture, into which the bicarb would dissolve and probably end up with a sludgy crud at the bottom if settled off...

Anyone got some high-tit to try it out with....?
In The Thermionic Past