Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on February 16, 2013, 07:44:25 PM
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Just finished an ASM batch that didn't go solid ... god I'm good!
The sequence of samples below are wash water ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated acid wash sequence of wash water.JPG)
From left to right ...
1) First wash with conc. sulfuric acid. Mix about 45 mins settle about 120 mins.
2) Second wash with added acetone. Mix about 45 mins settle about 120 mins.
3) Third wash water only. Mix about 45 mins settle about 120 mins.
4) Fourth wash water only. Mix about 45 mins settle over night.
5) Fifth wash water only. Mix about 45 mins settle about 120 mins.
On doing a careful drain of the fifth wash this brown gunk came out as an intermediate layer between water and bio. In the photo I separated the gunk as best I could and let it settle, resulting in bio and water dropping out.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated acid wash intermediate layer.jpg)
Is this stuff what the soap turns into during the acid wash (can't remember the chemical name Paul called it)? I can't say I've noticed it on previous batches and can't remember seeing it in the wash water until I left it overnight to separate.
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For a start, well done on compleating an ASM batch.
It's interesting to see results of further washing after the acetone wash,
it's something I haven't done as yet and I'm quite surprised at the resulting colour of the wash water.
I have however had a smiler brown gunk layer from one of my acid wash batches (without acetone),
but from memory I think it was one I didn't settle overnight.
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Fank gawd for that, I thought I was the only one getting that crap at the split level only mines a little creamier.
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It's not a good photo, Jim. The gunk is a really dark brown.
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First soap now a well known degreaser, proper little cottager industry
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Weird thing is, I have my suspicions it only appeared after leaving the 4th wash to settle over night, coinciding with the yellowing colour change.
On early washes I tend not to drain every last drop of water, knowing I'm going to be sticking more back in, so I can be sure it's there from the first wash.
Wish I could remember the chemical name Paul gave it.
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I'm trolling through the acid wash thread and found this photo I posted of an early acid wash I did ...
(http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/1/1a/Soap_neutralisation_washing_wash_waster_first_4_washes.JPG)
Compaired to the last batch ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated%20acid%20wash%20sequence%20of%20wash%20water.JPG)
Only difference I can remember is leaving one wash to settle over night.
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i get that crap too when i acid wash
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Weird thing is, I have my suspicions it only appeared after leaving the 4th wash to settle over night, coinciding with the yellowing colour change.
On early washes I tend not to drain every last drop of water, knowing I'm going to be sticking more back in, so I can be sure it's there from the first wash.
Wish I could remember the chemical name Paul gave it.
Hi all
The chemical produced in nutralising is sodium sulphate or potasium sulphate depending which base was used for the transeterification and sulphuric acid used in the nutralising.
If your using hydrochloric acid then you are producing
Sodium chloride or potasium chloride.
Paul
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Weird thing is, I have my suspicions it only appeared after leaving the 4th wash to settle over night, coinciding with the yellowing colour change.
On early washes I tend not to drain every last drop of water, knowing I'm going to be sticking more back in, so I can be sure it's there from the first wash.
Wish I could remember the chemical name Paul gave it.
Hi all
The chemical produced in nutralising is sodium sulphate or potasium sulphate depending which base was used for the transeterification and sulphuric acid used in the nutralising.
If your using hydrochloric acid then you are producing
Sodium chloride or potasium chloride.
Paul
Paul, can you verify something for me,
it was posted on another forum that when doing an acid wash the soaps were being converted back to FFA's,
now from what I've read this does seem to be the case if using iron exchange resins and if adding acid to bio without water,
but is it the same when adding acid and water ?
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Weird thing is, I have my suspicions it only appeared after leaving the 4th wash to settle over night, coinciding with the yellowing colour change.
On early washes I tend not to drain every last drop of water, knowing I'm going to be sticking more back in, so I can be sure it's there from the first wash.
Wish I could remember the chemical name Paul gave it.
Hi all
The chemical produced in nutralising is sodium sulphate or potasium sulphate depending which base was used for the transeterification and sulphuric acid used in the nutralising.
If your using hydrochloric acid then you are producing
Sodium chloride or potasium chloride.
Paul
Thanks Paul.
So if this gunk is the product of converting soaps to, in my case, to sodium sulphate, am I right in saying it should be present, to a greater or lesser extent (depending on the titration value), each time we acid wash.
I ask because I'm not convinced I'm getting it each time I acid wash. That said I haven't specifically looked for it in the past.
I assume the long settling period (over night in this case) allows it to settle where previously it may have remained in suspension. Have you any idea why the wash water would turn yellow for the latter washes?
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jgs600, Jim and Mark ...
Do you get the gunk every time?
If not, what circumstances make it appear?
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What about testing the pH of the wash water?
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What about testing the pH of the wash water?
To see if it changes as it goes yellow?
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I've only seen it once, but I do tend to just look for the colour change in my flexable pipe.
I recently emptied my settling / bio storage drum (my takeoff leaves 25L in the bottom of the drum) and didn't see any at the bottom, as I still have that 25L sat in a drum I'll see if anything has settled out.
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So I'm thinking if it titrates to require a reasonable quantity of acid and we don't get the gunk, is the wash effective?
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Julian...this may not be acid wash specific. It is rather stange that it should appear so late in your water wash cycles but I have seen something similar. At the end of the production process, after the 7%water wash, I often see this type of anomoly in the bio that I drain from my pipe work. There is often about 3-4lts of bio in the pipes and I never introduce it to the wash tank before it has settled. there is normally 3 diffinative layers...glyc, what you describe in your OP and the bio above.
I plan to produce next weekend and I'll endeavour to take some photo's and also do some soap tests following each wash.
Nige
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Julian...this may not be acid wash specific. It is rather stange that it should appear so late in your water wash cycles but I have seen something similar. At the end of the production process, after the 7%water wash, I often see this type of anomoly in the bio that I drain from my pipe work. There is often about 3-4lts of bio in the pipes and I never introduce it to the wash tank before it has settled. there is normally 3 diffinative layers...glyc, what you describe in your OP and the bio above.
I plan to produce next weekend and I'll endeavour to take some photo's and also do some soap tests following each wash.
Nige
Interesting. In my mind this stuff was headding for a neat little box labeled sodium sulfate as the result of acid washing, now you appear with a big spanner in your bowling hand ... thanks!
I'll try to separate and dry the gunk I've got but not sure where to go from there. It strikes me we need a full analytical laboratory for the soul use of forum members.
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I'll be in touch next weekend with photos of what come out of my processor when I send it to the wash tank. The downside is I have no means of testing what it is. Stand by.
Nige
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The downside is I have no means of testing what it is. Stand by.
Nige
Where's Biohazard when you need him, he'd have drunk it and reported back :) :)
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The downside is I have no means of testing what it is. Stand by.
Nige
Where's Biohazard when you need him, he'd have drunk it and reported back :) :)
Or not
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The downside is I have no means of testing what it is. Stand by.
Nige
Where's Biohazard when you need him, he'd have drunk it and reported back :) :)
Or not
Whateva, bovvered?
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It strikes me we need a full analytical laboratory for the soul use of forum members.
Maybe someone with deep enough pockets will provide some money to have it tested! Any offers?
Nige
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Hi all
Sorry haven't been in proper for a few days life's a bit of a struggle at mo. I'm talking to some chemical companies about something regarding my process which gives me access to their chemists so if I can I will get a diffinative answer on the whole acid wash and post up my finding's. even offer the bashing it got on VOD I still belive in this method as any converted FFA will be washed out by further water washes but I do feel its time to put this to bed so give me a couple of days and I will hopefully have some Answer's.
Paul
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Are you sure it was a bashing Paul and not comments by people with a different point of view?
Nige
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if it is sodium sulphate it should melt at 32 degrees if that any help as it is not pure crystals it should at least do something at 32 degrees. change viscosity or something? maybe depending on what else is in there.
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if it is sodium sulphate it should melt at 32 degrees if that any help as it is not pure crystals it should at least do something at 32 degrees. change viscosity or something? maybe depending on what else is in there.
That's very useful, thanks ... I'll have a play if I can isolate it. I'm assuming its a powder in it's pure form?
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i think it looks like table salt if its pure form. i have 20 kgs of it outside mixed with glys that paul gave me. its been settling for 6 months so will have a play with it.
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Julian,
That gunk isn't produced specifically in relation to doing an acid wash. If you have a look back at your long HMPE thread on the VOD, I posted some pics of the same stuff that was setting out after I had started pump washing. This was before I started using any vinegar with the wash process.
Maybe the acid stage speeds up it coming out but I don't thing it produces it.
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I've filtered some of this stuff now and it's draining/drying in the filter (Jcloth in a funnel). It seems a bit sticky due to the bio in it. Once it's drained/ dried as much as possible I'll see if it melts at around the 32°C suggested by photoman.
From what Nige posted earlier, what you've just said and the look of this stuff once it's filtered, I have to say it's looking a lot like the very fine sludge I sometimes drain form my heated/settling tank.
I'll try heating the stuff later today and report back.
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This is what the stuff looked like when filtered ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated acid wash intermediate layer filtered.JPG)
Still very wet. Anyhow I tried heating a small sample and all that seemed to happen was bio/water ran out. The solid reduced in volume and appeared to go a bit sticky, but by this time it was well over 32°C.
I tried wringing out a small sample, making a little "swag bag" like the salt you used to get in crisps. This removed a bit more liquid ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated acid wash intermediate layer squeezed.JPG)
I'll leave this in a warm place to see if I can dry it any more.
It may also be worth washing a sample in methanol to see if that will get rid of the bio.
So not really any further forward, it looks like it's probably not sodium sulfate.
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From a year ago on the VOD - http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18491&page=6#pid335354
I've seen this without and with acid washing.
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From a year ago on the VOD - http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18491&page=6#pid335354
I've seen this without and with acid washing.
The VOD seems a bit reluctant to show some photos. You mean this ...
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/richardp65/Biodiesel/IMAG0351.jpg)
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That looks very similar to what Nathan had in his centrifuge when he posted up some pics, not sure if it was here or on the VOD
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Wasn't Nathans stuff rather fatty/HMPEy?
Don't know about Richards stuff, but mine's more like sludge.
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Wasn't Nathans stuff rather fatty/HMPEy?
Don't know about Richards stuff, but mine's more like sludge.
Yes Nathan's was, while it looked a similar colour I think that was as far as it goes in similarity.
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Wasn't Nathans stuff rather fatty/HMPEy?
Don't know about Richards stuff, but mine's more like sludge.
Yes Nathan's was, while it looked a similar colour I think that was as far as it goes in similarity.
Just going from memory, might need to see a doctor :(
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Wasn't Nathans stuff rather fatty/HMPEy?
Don't know about Richards stuff, but mine's more like sludge.
Yes Nathan's was, while it looked a similar colour I think that was as far as it goes in similarity.
Just going from memory, might need to see a doctor :(
Lol... a pic doesn't really show consistency... it is like soft candle wax to begin with and the more you heat it till it melts and let it harden again the firmer it becomes strangely.
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Just going from memory, might need to see a doctor :(
Blimey Geeza, if you've produced anything like that I'm surprised y'togger ain't dropped off........................................or has it already?
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(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Titrated acid wash intermediate layer squeezed.JPG)
Looks like the back of pair of Keef's pants I saw at the last BBB, they were hanging of the Joke Arial.
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so do we feel this is from acid washing, are we creating something else by adding acid..!!
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I think, during acid washing, we must be creating something else from the soap, as Paul suggests, I'm just not now convinced that this brown gunk is necessarily it.
It would be nice to isolate it completely. I think the fact that it's soaked in bio is making it look more voluminous than it actually is.
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Morning all can't stay for long.
Julian what acid did you use for your acid wash and did you mix it with water or just mix it into the bio prior to adding water.
Can you warm it gently then mix it with a drop of acetone 50/50 to see if it dissolves or sepperat's (this may take couple of hours )
I'm on the road all morning and evening so if anyone fancies a chat I can tape my phone to my head.
Also I think u can simplify the acid titration water wash just down to one calc only per batch (anyone interested in a little test
Paul
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Morning all can't stay for long.
Julian what acid did you use for your acid wash and did you mix it with water or just mix it into the bio prior to adding water.
Can you warm it gently then mix it with a drop of acetone 50/50 to see if it dissolves or sepperat's (this may take couple of hours )
I'm on the road all morning and evening so if anyone fancies a chat I can tape my phone to my head.
Also I think u can simplify the acid titration water wash just down to one calc only per batch (anyone interested in a little test
Paul
I used concentrated sulfuric acid which was added to the was water. Even so I guess it was quite strong, if I remember corerectly it was 400ml in 5 ltrs.
I can try it with acetone, but would I need to get rid of the bio / water which seems to form the slurry?
Don't we already do only one calculation, but yes, I'm up to give it a whirl doing almost no milage at the moment so it wont be for a while yet.
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Morning all can't stay for long.
Julian what acid did you use for your acid wash and did you mix it with water or just mix it into the bio prior to adding water.
Can you warm it gently then mix it with a drop of acetone 50/50 to see if it dissolves or sepperat's (this may take couple of hours )
I'm on the road all morning and evening so if anyone fancies a chat I can tape my phone to my head.
Also I think u can simplify the acid titration water wash just down to one calc only per batch (anyone interested in a little test
Paul
I used concentrated sulfuric acid which was added to the was water. Even so I guess it was quite strong, if I remember corerectly it was 400ml in 5 ltrs.
I can try it with acetone, but would I need to get rid of the bio / water which seems to form the slurry?
Don't we already do only one calculation, but yes, I'm up to give it a whirl doing almost no milage at the moment so it wont be for a while yet.
Hi Julian
No leave the slurry I'm hoping that all the slurry will disolve in the acetone and leave just the product we are trying to identify.
When I say 1 calc I meen just one for all future batch's as long as you use the same acid be it vinegar or brick acid or sulphuric.
For the suphuric 96% I can do the calc for the next person doing this process
Paul
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Ah, I see regarding the calc, but don't see how it can be a one size fits all.
Having been scared of overdosing when I first started, my thoughts were turning to overdosing the acid in the first place because subsequent washes will take out any excess. Which got me thinking, if we dry the bio thoroughly and there was excess acid what will happen to it?
I hope I'm not confusing things with my terminology ... by slurry I mean the dark brown stuff which seems to be holding onto bio thus making a sort of slurry. I don't have much acetone, so would methanol do instead? My thinking was that it was miscible with both water and bio, so should wash both away from the brown solid. Any residual methanol would evaporate quickly.
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I'm wondering if by using acetone we could identify the remaining product as Glyc in some way.
If when mixed with acetone it all dissolves then that will tell me its not Glyc and put my mind at rest.
I'm wondering if maybe the 90/10 test isn't realy clear enough and is mabe leaving some mono's in and then wondering if the acid even at a weak solution is able to disassociate the fatty acid from the glycerine , its still this small residuals that I belive have something to do with hmpe's.
Probable just waffling now
Paul
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I can dump a sample into a small quantity of acetone quite easily ... would that be satisfactory?
With the methanol I was intending to wash it through a filter paper in a funnel.
You mention the 3/27 test not being clear and indicating mono glycerides. This cropped up a year or so ago. I asked where that part of the test came from and no one could site a source. I tracked down what I believe to be the first mention of the test in the form of an email from Jan Warnqvist on the JTF site, and there's no mention of it in there. I stuck a copy of Jan's mail on the wiki, here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/3/27_test#References
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I may be barking up the wrong tree here but as the 3/27 is scaled down from the original 25/225 it may not have sufficient quantities of meth and bio to be accurate.
ie: maybe a clear 3/27 could have either a cloudy 25/225 or even dropout !
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I was just wondering if you get any dropout with the acetone which would lead me to think Glyc to start with.
With regards to the test it was only realy ment to work on the larger quantities as this enabled a better indication of haze (the haze probably monos) . Every partical that contributes to the haze has a full size Glyc molecule so this could amount to some considerable amount
These are just my thought and could amount to nothing.
Sorry Steve beat me to it great minds think alike
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Sorry, but I'm struggling with the logic here. If the ratio is the same the cloudiness will be the same, surly.
What would make cloudiness more obvious would be the size/shape/proportions (however you want to look at it) of the container in which the test was carried out.
So, we can categoricaly state that a cloudy result indicates mono glycerides?
What about a very clear but tinted result?
Jan just states "a clear bright phase". I would say that doesn't mean cloudy, but it doesn't preclude the result being tinted.
In over a hundred batches I can only say I've had one 3/27 which could be described as both clear and colourless with one other quite close.
I've done the business with acetone and methanol and will post later when I've uploaded some photos.
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I've had a look at the stuff I removed from my drying/storage tank (formally known as my settling tank),
there is only one colour change and that looks like around 5l of waxy dropout (HMPE's ?),
nothing that looks like what you have Julian.
Allthough it has been dried, so maybe it stays in suspension once dried.
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OK, mixed some of the dryest gunk with acetone and ran it through some filter paper. These are the results ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 1.JPG)
Gunk as it scraped off the J cloth after filtering out bio/water. It was scraped from the top of the filter where it was the dryest. It had the consistency of a paste.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 2.JPG)
Gunk with a few mls. of acetone added ... no real effect immediately.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 3.JPG)
After mixing, it appeared to form a suspension ... nothing seemed to dissolve.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 4.JPG)
Filtering arrangement.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 5.JPG)
What was caught in the filter.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 6.JPG)
Acetone after filtering. Not too obvious from the photo, but it didn't appear to be discoloured. The Brown tint is very fine particles which passed through the filter paper (Not lab quality paper. Just paper from a commercial veg oil filtering system).
I ran methanol through the original Jcloth filter and pretty much the same happened. I've just been down and checked what ended up in the filter paper after an afternoon of drying and it's like a very fine, still sticky powder binding together.
Don't know if any of that helps?
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Hi Julian
Good job there
Sorry my fault but can you mix the different phase's back again and leave to settle, what I would like to see is the dark pasty stuff settle to the bottom and not dissolve in the bio/acetone mix
Sorry wish I'd had more time in my op to point out what i Was looking for.
I still think its Glyc related from monos.
With regards to the 90/10 test I still think the size of the test solution is relevant to reveal slight amout of monos but this could amount to a reasonable amount of glycerine.
Paul
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Hi Julian
Good job there
Sorry my fault but can you mix the different phase's back again and leave to settle, what I would like to see is the dark pasty stuff settle to the bottom and not dissolve in the bio/acetone mix
Sorry wish I'd had more time in my op to point out what i Was looking for.
I still think its Glyc related from monos.
With regards to the 90/10 test I still think the size of the test solution is relevant to reveal slight amout of monos but this could amount to a reasonable amount of glycerine.
Paul
I can scrape or wash with acetone, what's left on the paper back into the beaker, but there's appears to be far less on the filter paper than went into the beaker in the first place.
Would the stuff I washed with methanol still behave as you want? There's quite a bit of that left.
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I think it would
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OK, if there's not enough of the acetone washed stuff, I'll try the methanol washed stuff.
Just so I don't cock up this time ... you want to see the gunk settled out in acetone?
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Yes please
The gunk should settle and the rest should dissolve I'm hoping
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There you go ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 7.JPG)
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Gunk acetone 8.JPG)
The beaker on the left is the remnants from the acetone filtering. It's rather stuck together, but would separate with agitation.
The right hand one is the gunk washed with methanol. The photo is a bit misleading as there is a distinctive layer of brown solid at the bottom. The acetone is slightly more coloured, but don't forget that the very fine particles from the left hand sample were previously washed through the filter paper.
Any the wiser?
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Hi Julian thanks for doing all this.
I still think its Glyc related , just have to get my head round some other stuff andthen look at how we can go about bringing this issue to a definite conclusion
Paul
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Julian...you mentioned that you didn't have any lab grade filter papers. I can help you on that score. If you wish I could send to you some papers I have here. Let me know.
Nige
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As promised...a photo similar to the issues you're having Julian. This shows an intersection between the glyc layer and the raw bio above. Bare in mind this is not the true percentage of split. It was taken after a perfect 5/45 using ASM followed by a 7% post reaction water wash (no acid). As the glyc was drained down there is a distinct colour change followed by the bio. This stuff was dropped into a 5lt jug with bio when the glyc stopped. I don't have a clue what it is....but it's always there.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dzwhua.jpg)
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Nige, Kind offer, but I only use them once in a blue moon. If you are massively overstocked and remember them at the BBB, I'll cook you a horse burger!
I have to say your gunk loos quite similar to mine, but I can't say I've seen it at that stage of the process. Have you ever tried isolating and drying it, if so what colour was it?
I have to say I'm wondering more and more if this stuff isn't very fine BCBs with a density that prevents them being taken out with the glycerine. It could simply be a result of what's been cooking in the oil or perhaps the oil being taken over temperature.
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I may be barking up the wrong tree here but as the 3/27 is scaled down from the original 25/225 it may not have sufficient quantities of meth and bio to be accurate.
ie: maybe a clear 3/27 could have either a cloudy 25/225 or even dropout !
I've just been reading the thread in its entirety again and what Steve says here has some validity. I stepped up from 27/3 to 45/5 and then to 90/10 and saw a huge difference in the way the drop out was measured. I use to use a 10ml measuring cylinder from Vince for transfering across any drop out to be calculated. Even though great care was taken in the transfer the difference in side by side comparisons with Nathans glass wear and then with Uberveg's was huge. I'm sure if it scaled up again it would show up even greater discrepancies.
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Nige, Kind offer, but I only use them once in a blue moon. If you are massively overstocked and remember them at the BBB, I'll cook you a horse burger!
I have to say your gunk loos quite similar to mine, but I can't say I've seen it at that stage of the process. Have you ever tried isolating and drying it, if so what colour was it?
I have to say I'm wondering more and more if this stuff isn't very fine BCBs with a density that prevents them being taken out with the glycerine. It could simply be a result of what's been cooking in the oil or perhaps the oil being taken over temperature.
I'll put the filters on my list of stuff to bring and give away. To be honest I hardly ever use them.
When you drop the glycerine from the processor does it only have two layers...the bio and the glyc?
Strange that we see the same....or what looks to be the same...thing, but at different parts of the process!
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Nige, Kind offer, but I only use them once in a blue moon. If you are massively overstocked and remember them at the BBB, I'll cook you a horse burger!
I have to say your gunk loos quite similar to mine, but I can't say I've seen it at that stage of the process. Have you ever tried isolating and drying it, if so what colour was it?
I have to say I'm wondering more and more if this stuff isn't very fine BCBs with a density that prevents them being taken out with the glycerine. It could simply be a result of what's been cooking in the oil or perhaps the oil being taken over temperature.
I'll put the filters on my list of stuff to bring and give away. To be honest I hardly ever use them.
When you drop the glycerine from the processor does it only have two layers...the bio and the glyc?
Strange that we see the same....or what looks to be the same...thing, but at different parts of the process!
My guess is you see it Nige due to the 7% water prewash you do.
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I may be barking up the wrong tree here but as the 3/27 is scaled down from the original 25/225 it may not have sufficient quantities of meth and bio to be accurate.
ie: maybe a clear 3/27 could have either a cloudy 25/225 or even dropout !
I've just been reading the thread in its entirety again and what Steve says here has some validity. I stepped up from 27/3 to 45/5 and then to 90/10 and saw a huge difference in the way the drop out was measured. I use to use a 10ml measuring cylinder from Vince for transfering across any drop out to be calculated. Even though great care was taken in the transfer the difference in side by side comparisons with Nathans glass wear and then with Uberveg's was huge. I'm sure if it scaled up again it would show up even greater discrepancies.
The point I was commenting on was the cloudiness. It's obvious that larger volumes will show greater drop out (if there is any) but the cloudiness (opacity if you like) of the methanol (assuming it is) will remain the same.
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Nige, Kind offer, but I only use them once in a blue moon. If you are massively overstocked and remember them at the BBB, I'll cook you a horse burger!
I have to say your gunk loos quite similar to mine, but I can't say I've seen it at that stage of the process. Have you ever tried isolating and drying it, if so what colour was it?
I have to say I'm wondering more and more if this stuff isn't very fine BCBs with a density that prevents them being taken out with the glycerine. It could simply be a result of what's been cooking in the oil or perhaps the oil being taken over temperature.
I'll put the filters on my list of stuff to bring and give away. To be honest I hardly ever use them.
When you drop the glycerine from the processor does it only have two layers...the bio and the glyc?
Strange that we see the same....or what looks to be the same...thing, but at different parts of the process!
I've learnt that the only certain thing about making bio is that you can never be certain about anything.
Can't really be certain we're seeing the same thing. I recon I got about 2-3 litres of the stuff out of 80 ltrs of oil.
I've never noticed it between the glycerine and bio and these days I drain into a tub of shavings, several times and leave it overnight, to enable the acid wash.
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My guess is you see it Nige due to the 7% water prewash you do.
So what do you think it is and what do think brings it on?
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I have seen this type of layer in my gly if it has water in it, but it's once it's settled for a week or more.
But I've never seen it when draining from the reactor.
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My guess is you see it Nige due to the 7% water prewash you do.
So what do you think it is and what do think brings it on?
I have no idea what it is but think it is the water that brings it out, I seem to recall something very much like it way back when I did the 7% prewash prior to demething/drying and settling.