Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on February 14, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
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Hi, Dame Hilda Bracket here!
This will sound a little strange (well, perhaps not coming from me), but how do you test for biodiesel besides doing a 3/27 or running it in an engine?
I've been playing with my soap (don't bother with the bath-time jokes) and I think I may have produced biodiesel. It gives a respectable 3/27 result, but as I only have about 50ml running it in a car isn't piratical.
Anyone any ideas?
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Hi, Dame Hilda Bracket here!
This will sound a little strange (well, perhaps not coming from me), but how do you test for biodiesel besides doing a 3/27 or running it in an engine?
I've been playing with my soap (don't bother with the bath-time jokes) and I think I may have produced biodiesel. It gives a respectable 3/27 result, but as I only have about 50ml running it in a car isn't piratical.
Anyone any ideas?
It's a bit light on the details, Matey (get it)
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Errr, no, sorry!
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"Matey" is a bath playtime soap for kids.
Still light on details as to how you turned soap into Bio.
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Hi, Dame Hilda Bracket here!
This will sound a little strange (well, perhaps not coming from me), but how do you test for biodiesel besides doing a 3/27 or running it in an engine?
I've been playing with my soap (don't bother with the bath-time jokes) and I think I may have produced biodiesel. It gives a respectable 3/27 result, but as I only have about 50ml running it in a car isn't piratical.
Anyone any ideas?
Not sure I follow... have you made bio out of soap?
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... have you made bio out of soap?
That's exactly what I'm trying to find out.
It's a dark straw coloured liquid with it's origins in vegtable oil and it passes the 3/27 test. How do I know it's biodiesel?
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"Matey" is a bath playtime soap for kids.
Bloody hell Jim, that's a bit tenuous. But I do remember "Matey" from when I was very young ... just had to google it and they still seem to sell it. And here's the old advert ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZzk6O-Uiw I have to admit, it does bring back memories!
Still light on details as to how you turned soap into Bio.
Intentionally. I don't want to spout off claiming to have turned water into wine until I know I can get pissed on the stuff.
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Cool! Rock on bio brother! 8)
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My home made soap from glyc slowly sweats something similar out in storage.
But I have never tested it, as it's all 'wash n go' here.
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Starting to regret asking the question now!
Tried another test ... it burns on a wick with a yellow flame and black soot.
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Cool! Rock on bio brother! 8)
hehehe
anywhooes i thought quite a valid question, how do we know? well you know that is. well you know what i mean...
:o
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Would you be turning it into FFA's?
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"running it in a car isn't piratical" "Matey" definate nautical theme Dame Bracket!
Anyways wot about this?
Specific gravity of Biodiesel is between 0.860 and 0.900
Specific gravity of vegetable oil is usually 0.920 or higher
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Hi Julian
The conversion of fatty acid to bio / soap is fully reversible so you could easly have converted your soap to bio given the right process.
If your test passes a3/27 test then it could be bio or FFA so you could try to some 50/50 washes to remove residual chemicals then maybe titrate it to see if it contains any FFA.
I think the best way to be sure would be to process a full batch of your material as you have with your test sample then put a % of it in with each batch you make and use it this way.
Hope this helps
Paul
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Julian
I know what you're asking and I have plenty of the same "soap" as you.
I'll be doing the same tests on my stuff, so we can see if we get the same results.
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If its all soap you could just break it with acid or mix it into a crazy emulsion the break that with loads of Glyc
Both ways will work , the first removed the base chem's and the second removes the water both will work it just depends how your best set up for.
Paul
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"running it in a car isn't piratical" "Matey" definate nautical theme Dame Bracket!
Thanks ever so much for pointing that out, I blame the spell checker. Makes Jim's comment a little less tenuous, bordering on amusing.
Anyways wot about this?
Specific gravity of Biodiesel is between 0.860 and 0.900
Specific gravity of vegetable oil is usually 0.920 or higher
Anyways, quite like that. Not sure that I can fit a hydrometer in 50ml but I could run more test batches, save committing the whole 80 ltrs.
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Hi Julian
The conversion of fatty acid to bio / soap is fully reversible so you could easily have converted your soap to bio given the right process.
If your test passes a3/27 test then it could be bio or FFA so you could try to some 50/50 washes to remove residual chemicals then maybe titrate it to see if it contains any FFA.
I think the best way to be sure would be to process a full batch of your material as you have with your test sample then put a % of it in with each batch you make and use it this way.
Hope this helps
Paul
There's no real mystry to what I did it was all very simple ... complicated things (like spelling) are usually beyond me. I did perform a titration in the process which was one of the lowest I've seen at 0.1 using NaOH. So whatever happened to make the "soap" appeared to effect the FFA level.
I don't really want to commit to trying with the whole 80 ltrs until I'm sure it works.
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Julian
I know what you're asking and I have plenty of the same "soap" as you.
I'll be doing the same tests on my stuff, so we can see if we get the same results.
Sounds good, Evadne. It'll be interesting to see if you get the same result indicating your "soap" was the same as mine.
PS don't mention pirates when replying ... the smart arses make jokes about it and then you just look silly.
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Someone's been experimenting with acids and Glycerol, best of luck chap :)
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Evadne.
?
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Evadne.
?
Some tosser called us Dr. Evadne Hinge and Dame Hilda Bracket the other day.
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Someone's been experimenting with acids and Glycerol, best of luck chap :)
I'd have started playing with acid if the titration hadn't been so low.
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Evadne.
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Some tosser called us Dr. Evadne Hinge and Dame Hilda Bracket the other day.
I see. I'd read (and ignored) the Hinge and Bracket comment the other day, I just didn't know the first names.
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During the last couple of days, I replicated the samples I did the other day to make a 1 litre batch. This again resulted in a clear but coloured 3/27 with no drop out.
I've just tested the SG. My 1.17 - 0.98 hydrometer, in nautical terms, was lost with all hands. My 0.8 - 0.75 hydrometer floated to the point of nearly jumping out of of the test jar.
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/SG of suspected bio.JPG)
So the SG has to be somewhere between 0.8 and 0.98.
From Toss KH ...
Biodiesel SG 0.860 and 0.900
vegetable oil SG 0.920 or higher
So not conclusive, need another hydrometer!
How are you getting on Evadne?
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I've not done anything as yet, been busy getting a batch of fuel done.
Sadly I didn't have time to do the acetone wash testing I had hoped to either.
Back at work now so it'll have to be on hold for another few days.