Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Carrington on January 27, 2013, 09:47:44 AM

Title: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Carrington on January 27, 2013, 09:47:44 AM
Just wondering if now's the time to have a dedicated results page for trials done on the use of acetone.
This way we can chat about ideas on the first thread but just put up results on a seperate thread so they don't get lost in amongst the chater and ideas.
This should make doing the final wright up for the wiki easer

Paul
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2013, 11:08:31 AM
That's a good idea, without a category tag it won't be linked from the front page but a search would find it. We can mark it WIP.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Julian on January 27, 2013, 12:48:55 PM
Your wish is the admins command.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Acetone_as_an_aid_to_transesterification

I've tried to collect all pertinent data from the thread but if I've missed anything it can easily be added by editing the page.  Anyone needing editors rights, just shout.

New test results can be added to the bottom of the page using the format already set up.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: K.H on January 27, 2013, 06:38:14 PM
I read it as just another thread wanted
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Julian on January 27, 2013, 06:50:30 PM
That's what I thought initially, but another thread will get lost in cyber space exactly the same as the first one.  If it becomes a wiki page it's really easy to condense the text down and the photos are already loaded ready to go.

Paul ... what did you intend?  Are you happy with the wiki page?  Would you prefer a forum thread?  What's the meaning of life?
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: K.H on January 27, 2013, 07:01:55 PM
42?
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Julian on January 27, 2013, 07:06:03 PM
You mean ... 42
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2013, 07:58:46 PM
That's not the meaning - that's the answer!

Besides, can't the answer and question not both be known in the same universe without destroying it?
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: K.H on January 27, 2013, 08:01:54 PM
Im more the school of "Pratchett"
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: 1958steveflying on January 27, 2013, 08:12:11 PM
I'm more      "LOST"  :-\
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2013, 08:12:28 PM
Pratchet quote, "Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."

Adams quote, "Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. The Hingefreel people of Arkintoofle Minor did try to build spaceships that were powered by bad news but they didn't work particularly well and were so extremely unwelcome whenever they arrived anywhere that there wasn't really any point in being there."

Can't help but like them both.

We might be going a little offtopic... ;)
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: K.H on January 27, 2013, 08:18:57 PM
Thats one of my favourite quotes, there is nothing faster than the speed of dark!
Julian should like them as he still thinks the earth is flat, anyway he started it by saying cyber space
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: julesandtash on January 27, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
.... and after seven and a half million years  Deep Thought of pondering, Deep Thought, having proudly pronounced the answer as 42 stated  " I think the problem, to be quite honest with you, is that you've never actually known what the question is."

Deep Thought then went on to design a computer so complicated that organic life itself would form part of the design matrix. Unfortunately, just before the program had come to fruition, the Vogons came along and blew up this wonderful computer, quaintly named the Earth, to male for a Hyperspace Bypass.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2013, 08:34:03 PM
My favourite HHGTTG character is Wonko the Sane with his inside out house, built after fearing for the world's sanity after reading a set of detailed instructions on a set of toothpicks. He built The Asylum (the inside out house) to put the world in, to help it get better :)
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Carrington on January 27, 2013, 08:40:58 PM
I'm more      "LOST"  :-\

I'm always lost but I learnt to read to prachett at the age of 15 so I'm going for the disc world
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Carrington on January 27, 2013, 08:49:04 PM
And yes I like the wiki page
Space for lists of info so people can go the way they want
Some will go for doing by the book and some that just want to make things a bit easer for their system.
Just remebr we used to do it by the book for years then we found out that a base of 3.5 NaOH wasn't enough , so how knows what we may turn up

Paul
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: julesandtash on January 27, 2013, 08:56:12 PM
..... and now some are saying, once again, that it is.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: photoman290 on January 27, 2013, 09:27:55 PM
i,m going for flann obrien s policemen in the 3rd policeman. that explains the world from the viewpoint of a policeman in a small irish town, after talking to some people from the pub. i think? been a while since i read it.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: 1958steveflying on January 27, 2013, 09:33:39 PM

Just remember we used to do it by the book for years then we found out that a base of 3.5 NaOH wasn't enough , 

Paul

 Catch up Paul.......

And then we started 2 stage no titration and found out actually 3.5g NaOH base is enough... so long as your oil is DRY. lol.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Carrington on January 27, 2013, 09:39:05 PM
Sorry I'm so behind the times it been a while.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2013, 09:47:44 PM

Just remember we used to do it by the book for years then we found out that a base of 3.5 NaOH wasn't enough , 

Paul

 Catch up Paul.......

And then we started 2 stage no titration and found out actually 3.5g NaOH base is enough... so long as your oil is DRY. lol.

Even bone dry oil won't give complete conversion single stage without 5g+ base.  The Acetone paper seems to suggest that complete conversion is possible with much less than 3.5g.

Hypothetically, you should only need a tiny bit of catalyst, because it's a catalyst and not consumed by the process where no water and FFAs are present, so you could get away with 0.1g/l if the process was right!

I'm guessing 5g/l and 3.5g/l all comes down to Glycerol byproduct retarding the catalyst in some way.
Title: Re: Results page for acetone use in reaction
Post by: Dickjotec on January 27, 2013, 10:02:31 PM
There is no correct way just the best way for individual circumstances. Some want to do it 'right' others just as easily as possible. In the end if we have all the information each can make their choice.
The process has evolved considerably since I started 6 years ago and, hopefully will contine to change.
Dick