Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on November 07, 2020, 10:58:11 PM
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Just a note for anyone storing veg. oil for long periods.
Further to Dave's excellent demonstration at the 2020 BBB, I tested some oil I've had "saved for a rainy day" which has been sitting in a couple of 200 ltr metal drums for around 8 years.
As Dave described, I did a 3/27 test on it and found that, after a period, I got a full 3ml drop out.
Based in this it looks like the degradation of the oil Dave tested was not caused by age, but as he suggested during the demo., possibly by UV attack.
So it looks best to store oil in light proof containers.
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What did Daves demonstration show? I assume it was on oil that had not been stored in light proof containers?
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The oil Dave had wouldn't convert to bio.
It was stored in an IBC for an extended period and when given a 3/27 test as a raw feed stock showed no drop out.
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Thanks Julian.
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Strangely enough I was thinking about making a post about this, you beat me to it Julian. So just to explain fully;
A friend of mine had this 'strange' oil offered to him. There was a total of about 17 IBC's. Not all full and some contained glycerol and very watery whites. I tested some of the oil via the Dr pepper method and couldn't get any dropout after adding methoxide. I titrated quite a few samples and got results between 9 and 13 (KOH) so After adding much stronger methoxide I did get some reaction although the yield was very poor as well as producing a lot of glycerol. 10/90 tests on the oil showed dropouts of between zero and 5mls
I phoned a well qualified friend (ex commercial producer) who had come across this before. This oil was 10 years or more old and kept in clear IBC's outside for all this time. He said the u/v had, over the years split the free fatty acid chains into shorter ones (so no longer ffa's) hence the reason why it was totally/partially soluble in methanol.
So even though I eventually got some reaction, what I made probably wasn't biodiesel (a fatty acid methyl ester) simply because I probably wasn't starting with ffa's originally.
I have since done a 100 litre process using a blend of 40 litres of this strange oil and 60 litres of my own 'fresh' oil. Even though blended some strange things happen. Glycerol seems to form much quicker after methoxide addition (like it turns dark within seconds) Yield is poor, probably some 10 litres below usual. It takes double the water washes to get clear water but no hint of a monoglyceride emulsion.
Anyway, I ran some of it in the Renault traffic van, Guess what............ ran completely normal!
So Julian, just blend it, I'm sure it will work.
This stuff really has me guessing, after the first few tests I was convinced it wasn't veg. I have tangled before with old oil (not as bad as this) and it always has that strange paint/turps smell to it.
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Would it work for someone running WVO instead of BD?
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Tried it in my 2.0 kubota idi engine in my big 5 gang ransomes mower. Topped the tank up twice whilst using it. it ran fine but next day wouldn't restart on it so emptied the tank and re filled with my usual 50/50 bio/kero mix.
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Julian, sorry, misread your post. I thought you did a 10/90 and only got 3 mls dropout. So all is well with your oil, thats good.
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Julian, sorry, misread your post. I thought you did a 10/90 and only got 3 mls dropout. So all is well with your oil, thats good.
I hope so ... it's all I have left!
I Thought I'd post the result just to reinforce your suspicion that he cause was UV.
I'll process some later this week or at the week end and post the result. I have to say after sitting for 8 years it's crystal clear!
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A little later than planned, but I processed a batch from this oil last week and it converted just fine.
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Thats good. Fancy leaving a sample out in the sun for a few years then doing a Dr pepper on it?
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The way my memory is these days, I'd have forgotten where I put it after a week.
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The way my memory is these days, I'd have forgotten where I put it after a week.
I know the feeling.
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fingers crossed it is due to sunlight... I've got 5 IBCs full waiting on me setting the bio processor up.... they've been there waiting about 6 years now.... :-o