Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: neisel on April 24, 2015, 09:39:21 AM
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I was given 120 odd litres of methanol which turns out to have water in it.
Is there anything I can do that will make it pure & / or usable?
If not, what to do with it?
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Commercial places use (fractional) distillation. But setting up would cost you more than the meth would be worth.
People have talked about water removing gells before, but ive never heard of the results.
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As for what to use it for - if its not too bad, you could try using it for enriched glyc washes?
DGS will, im sure, be able to advise better.
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Thanks.
I wondered if one of the guys who reclaims methanol could do something with it, but TBH I haven't a clue f the energy cost would make that a non flyer.
It's got to be useful for something other than screenwash.
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It's got to be useful for something other than screenwash.
mmmm....nothing quite like the sweet smell of poison in the cabin!!
I reckon Julian is on the right line...meth enrichement of the glyc prewash.
Do you know how much water is in it? Have you tested it with a spirit hyrdometer or weighed a sample to find out how pure or impure it is. GL posted up on his website a graph that shows the level of contamination.
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This is the worst. That bottom line on the hydrometer is .800 so I can't give you a definitive SG reading.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/a4wf0h.jpg)
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Hi neisel,
There looks to be a lot of water in that methanol. Without knowing how much it is difficult to advise you. If you send me a sample I will test it for water, probably with the sandy brae. Just PM me if you want to do that. Dave.
ps Just doing a few quick calculations, as long as the water was not more than @ 25% it would still work with a sort of enhanced glycerol pre-treatment, but you would have to ensure that there was a lot of glycerol in the mix (maybe anything up to 50%) so it removed the water when it was drained.
As an experiment you could try; 100 litres of oil, 50 litres (or as much as you've got) of glycerol, 10 litres of wet methanol, mixed with 200gms KOH. After draining the glycerol do a 10/90 to calculate 2nd stage which you would do with dry methanol. I think this would work but it depends on the water content of the methanol.
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This is the chart I was eluding to. If you cant weigh 1lt weigh 100ml and multiply the weight by 10. It should give you a good indication.
http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/methanol_purity.htm
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This is the chart I was eluding to. If you cant weigh 1lt weigh 100ml and multiply the weight by 10. It should give you a good indication.
http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/methanol_purity.htm
nigel, the big question is not the water in the methanol, but if leicester will stay in the premiership.
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They are on a good run at the mo :)
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I used to be a season ticket holder until 2 yrs ago. Got fed up with the cheating. I hope they stay up but the bottom line is...I couldn't care less. Must change my avatar. ;D
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I used to be a season ticket holder until 2 yrs ago. Got fed up with the cheating. I hope they stay up but the bottom line is...I couldn't care less. Must change my avatar. ;D
Footballing is second only to smileys ... Nige can I help you change your avatar ... sooner the better in my books.
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I'll change it tonight when I get back...off to Music Fest to see my lad play in his brass band.
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I'll change it tonight when I get back...off to Music Fest to see my lad play in his brass band.
Please please change it to a giant smiley :)
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There we go....all done. ;D
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Thats your VOD one :)
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...and my UKPassats and my Run2
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(http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/biohazard.gif?dateline=1409085932)
And there's me expecting something artistic, intellectually challenging or amusing ... Ho Hum!
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dgs,
Thanks for the offer of a test. Prob is, I have about 6 jerry cans full of this stuff, all with different hydrometer readings & TBH I don't think it's feasible to send you so many samples. Doubt you could be bothered to check them all anyway.
Slightly OT, on my last batch I tried a double glyc wash, using glyc I had washed with once before & then using 'virgin' glyc from the previous 2nd stage. I didn't do a 10/90 as I wasn't expecting a huge difference but got a 100% reaction on the first stage (21 litres & 1050 grms KOH into 150 litres). Water washing took 3 or 4 goes longer than normal so I must have overdosed. I'll 10/90 next time but was wondering as a new convert to the cult of double glyc washing, can twice used glyc be dried in much the same way BD is after water washing & reused or would the drying get rid of all the chemicals?
Would dried glyc & your suggestion of 10 litres wet meth & 200 grms of KOH be more or less worthwhile than not dried glyc?
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(http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/biohazard.gif?dateline=1409085932)
And there's me expecting something artistic, intellectually challenging or amusing ... Ho Hum!
...and there was I thinking you knew me better. ::)
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He, he, he.
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isn't that symbol for bio-hazard?
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Bio-hazards true identity reveled at last.
All starts to make sense now.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_hazard
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Yes, yes, yes ... but you must remember bio-hazard on the VOD?
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Just to let you know....I'm not the VOD biohazard...though I do use it as a team name for the Run2 driving tours. We are now Biohazard V1.1
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I was just joking!!!
There are a couple of us no here who know his identity though.
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I was just joking!!!
There are a couple of us no here who know his identity though.
I remember his ID was discovered by a link from his avatar.
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What are you guys talking about?
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I was just joking!!!
There are a couple of us no here who know his identity though.
I remember his ID was discovered by a link from his avatar.
Well remembered!
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What are you guys talking about?
I think they're called Trolls these days but that's probably too stronger word for biohazard. He used to appear on the VOD from time to time and was often quite amusing. Only went too far on a couple of occasions (in my opinion) so was pretty innocuous.
KH and I sussed out who it was by the route Nige mentioned. I've never divulged his identity ... have you Keith?
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dgs,
Thanks for the offer of a test. Prob is, I have about 6 jerry cans full of this stuff, all with different hydrometer readings & TBH I don't think it's feasible to send you so many samples. Doubt you could be bothered to check them all anyway.
Slightly OT, on my last batch I tried a double glyc wash, using glyc I had washed with once before & then using 'virgin' glyc from the previous 2nd stage. I didn't do a 10/90 as I wasn't expecting a huge difference but got a 100% reaction on the first stage (21 litres & 1050 grms KOH into 150 litres). Water washing took 3 or 4 goes longer than normal so I must have overdosed. I'll 10/90 next time but was wondering as a new convert to the cult of double glyc washing, can twice used glyc be dried in much the same way BD is after water washing & reused or would the drying get rid of all the chemicals?
Would dried glyc & your suggestion of 10 litres wet meth & 200 grms of KOH be more or less worthwhile than not dried glyc?
Hi neisel,
Yes, glycerol can be dried and re-used. The way IMB used to do it was to heat it in 10litre batches to 120 degs for one hour. Obviously this will also drive off the methanol, but any residual KOH will still be present. If you are going to add methanol and KOH to it this will work.
As to your last question, I don't know as there are so many variables. You would have to try both ways to see if the drying was worth it.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5367078823/m/4487067973?r=4487067973#4487067973
There is a link to IMB's dry start method and although not exactly the same as you are doing, there are similarities.
Dave.
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What are you guys talking about?
I think they're called Trolls these days but that's probably too stronger word for biohazard. He used to appear on the VOD from time to time and was often quite amusing. Only went too far on a couple of occasions (in my opinion) so was pretty innocuous.
KH and I sussed out who it was by the route Nige mentioned. I've never divulged his identity ... have you Keith?
No its not really common knowledge, but they no longer post on the VOD do they?
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mmmm....nothing quite like the sweet smell of poison in the cabin!!
I've been using contaminated methanol to make screen wash for a couple of years now and so far haven't gone blind.
I did try to find the optimum %age when I started using it but couldn't and just did a bit of experimenting. It works really well ... glob of methanol, a glob of cheapest washing up liquid you can find (must be cheap as I think more expensive brands may contain lanolin or similar which smears on the screen), and top up with water.
You can indeed smell it in the car if you wash for a long period, but I don't think the odd waft of fumes will do any harm and, under several layers of dirt, surrounding paint work seems is unblemished.
Thinking about methanol as anti freeze when neisel started this thread, I stumbled upon a company in Colorado USA who make methanol based screen wash. This page ( http://www.clearchoiceantifreeze.com/products.html ) states their screen wash is 30% methanol as follows ...
Clear Choice Windshield Washer Fluid
As a service to our antifreeze customers, we proudly offer you windshield washer solvent. Our washer fluid is the finest in the business. We blend our windshield washer fluid using 30% methanol to deliver optimal freeze point protection, while giving you the peace of mind of a 100 degree flash point. Since we deliver in bulk, you'll only pay for what you need. You won't find a better product on the market. (Available only in select areas--call for details.)
Here's a link to the MSDS ... http://www.clearchoiceantifreeze.com/pdf/MSDS-WWFluid.pdf
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Hmm,
I'm suprised that USA rules and regulations allow methanol in washer fluid to be used in such large amounts. At 30% there is probably enough in a 5L container to kill the entire population of a small village.
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When I started making bio, most of the US instructions said to use automotive antifreeze and drain cleaner in the process, that was long after we'd stopped using methanol as antifreeze here.