Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on December 24, 2014, 04:44:06 PM
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Still having trouble getting the last batch of bio completely dry.
I thought I'd dump some horticultural water retaining gel into a sample. It worked amazingly well! It was a "before your very eyes" result. Within a few seconds the bio was completely clear ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Water retaining gel.JPG)
I bought the gel some time ago to try and dry methanol. That was a failure but I can't think why I didn't try drying bio.
This looks promising on a small scale.
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Has the gel expanded or is that the volume you started with?
It'd be interesting to know the H20 ppm and the minimum ratio of gell per litre required to dry.
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when you filter the gel out, are you going to try drying it with heat ?
would be great if it can be re-used ?
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K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results. I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)
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Has the gel expanded or is that the volume you started with?
It'd be interesting to know the H20 ppm and the minimum ratio of gell per litre required to dry.
It's expanded a bit but to nowhere near a fraction of the volume when its fully saturated. It still feels granular where as it's like frogspawn without the pips when fully saturated.
when you filter the gel out, are you going to try drying it with heat ?
would be great if it can be re-used ?
It would be good if it can be regenerated. I'll certainly give it a try perhaps boxing day when the outlaw comes for dinner!
K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results. I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)
I didn't know that, I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, sorry Keith ... can you add anything to my amateurish efforts to date?
I don't insist, but I do feel happier knowing it's been washed. This is the first batch in several years that's shown a propensity to cling on to water ... I wonder what's with the bio that it does that?
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You could try regenerating that jel with heat, but I think the best way would be to try and absorb the water out of it. Unlike the silica jel, it might not take to kindly to having the water evaporated out of it.
The silica is designed just to keep moisture down, whereas the horticultural stuff is designed to hold a big mass of water.
I'd be inclined to spread it out onto an absorbent towel or something. Basically, that is the way it's designed to work anyway, the soil absorbs the water out of it.
I think on some of it, it gives a six year working life.
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you could try calcium chloride as well. cheap and easy to dry out with heat afterwards. i can send you some if you want to experiment. not sure what it would do to the IP though so don't blame me if it kills it.
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Ah, give me a while to find / remember what i did, im sure Nige was about when we did it, i know i still have a bottle of unused gel on the shelf here
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I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat. Best addition to BD processing I can think of.
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I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat. Best addition to BD processing I can think of.
Interesting, John. Can you describe the process and equipment in detail please?
I had thoughts of containing the gel in some sort of filter housing and pumping the bio through it, but the ratio of expansion as it absorbs water would probably make the idea impractical, plus it would probably get carried out of the housing in the flow. Is it just a case of lobbing it in a settling tank and mixing?
I found playing with beaker samples, stirring made quite a difference to the speed of absorption.
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I use Quik n' Dri. [no longer sold]
the same product is is also available as
http://www.watercrystals.com/
http://www.watersorb.com/
http://watergelcrystals.com/
A 5 gal water cooler jug with a wide hole cut in the bottom makes a good filter/dryer/funnel. The standard bag filters fit perfectly over the jug and hang through the hole. Optionally one can make a good bag filter out of the backs of old jeans legs. A universal water filter cartridge holds the drying polymer and fits tightly in the neck of the jug. The inverted jug fits nicely into the bung opening of a 30 gal HDPE barrel. It takes about an hour for the 5 gal of mix to flow through the dryer column/filter funnel. As any water is absorbed the polymer swells to a jell [like cooked tapioca] and slows then stops the flow. When it takes more than a couple of hours to run through I know it's time to change the cartridge of polymer. I use a small 1/10hp 115v transfer pump to circulate the BD fuel mix from about a foot off the bottom of the 30 gal barrel into the filter/funnel.
A Universal Water Filter cartridge fits into the neck of the jug.
(http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee_files/attachments/5/2/1/521101644/521101644_filterjug.jpg)
The cartridge is easily disassembled, and the bag containing the water treatment particles removed to provide space for about 75ml of Q&D with headroom for expansion with the cap replaced.
This Q&D column is good assurance of dry fuel and as an indicator of moisture trapped.
The fuel mix of BD[50], kerosene (or seasonal pump diesel)[40] and petrol[10] is pumped from about 6" off the bottom of the storage barrel, which is in my unheated fuel shed, through a 5µ filter cartridge and into the vehicle tank. This cold filtering/settling method has eliminated the HMPEs that would otherwise settle out in the vehicle tank and clog the fuel pick-up screen. This is the 4th winter using this method to prevent fuel system problems in below freezing temperatures.
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I've been using hydrophylic polymer "Water retaining gel" for years to 'polish' biodiesel and fuel mixes.
It absorbs about 10x it's volume of water, and can be easily regenerated many times with air drying and gentle heat. Best addition to BD processing I can think of.
Interesting, John. Can you describe the process and equipment in detail please?
I had thoughts of containing the gel in some sort of filter housing and pumping the bio through it, but the ratio of expansion as it absorbs water would probably make the idea impractical, plus it would probably get carried out of the housing in the flow. Is it just a case of lobbing it in a settling tank and mixing?
I found playing with beaker samples, stirring made quite a difference to the speed of absorption.
I used one of these for the gel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290713670527?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Obviously this requires further play time.
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One can also make a simple upflow column from ABS or PVC plastic .
I used what I had available, and it worked well enough for my purpose.
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K.H also experimented with this a couple of years back with good results. I guess if you insist on making your bio wet to start with it's potentially useful :)
Just remembered! you were here as well ;D
Wet oil, Nige and his magnetic stirrer, cleared an emulsion if i remember correctly
Then we had the bag that goes into bulk tanks to remove water, that failed
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so... haven't made any bio yet
but why can;t you just heat bio to dry it like we do veg oil ?
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I've confirmed the effectiveness of the water absorbing polymer gels using a carbide manometer to accurately test for water content. The water absorbing grains easily bring the BD to less than 250ppm H2O which is good enough for blending with petrol fuels that further inhibit water retention.
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so... haven't made any bio yet
but why can;t you just heat bio to dry it like we do veg oil ?
If you heat it long enough and bubble dry air through it you can get it below 500ppm.
The gels are best used for final 'polishing' to reduce water content to less than 200ppm.
That's way below what can be detected with the 'hot pan test' used for VO.
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John ... any chance of putting a wiki page together on your setup?
I'm happy to help with the wiki markup, page layout and any diagrams required.
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John ... any chance of putting a wiki page together on your setup?
I'm happy to help with the wiki markup, page layout and any diagrams required.
I don't have a clue how to convert what I've posted in this discussion into a 'wiki page'. You're more than welcome to copy what I've posted here to another place on the BioPowered site if that would be useful to others.
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... if you insist on making your bio wet to start with...
Is that what folks on this side of the pond call water washing?
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John, an ongoing debating over here about which is best water washing and drying or de-meth and settle. Both have merit and I donboth at different times of the year
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I used one of these for the gel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290713670527?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Hi Keith, what sort of flow rate are you using through that? Can you see a noticeable difference from just drying normally?
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I used one of these for the gel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290713670527?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Hi Keith, what sort of flow rate are you using through that? Can you see a noticeable difference from just drying normally?
I didnt get too far, the pump on the wash tank was too powerful as i use it for transferring, i think if using a pump it would need a few passes, I didnt continue as touch wood the bio has always been perfectly clear after drying