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Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on April 04, 2014, 08:04:16 PM

Title: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 04, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
Last batch which I thought emulsified during 7% wash looks like it didn't, infact it was behaving quite normally.

Background ...
Fitted a bigger pump which, coupled with convoluted pipe work, contrived to create emulsions whilst pump washing.  The answer I thought was to employ the little Mono with a much lower flow rate and gentle pumping action to do the washing.

Issue this time ...
Added 7% water after quite a heavy demeth, and took a sample after a short while.  The sample was a thick dark brown gooey liquid.  Based on previous experience I assumed it was an emulsion and tried splitting it with acid which appeared not to work.  Leaving things in the processor with the sight glass valve open, very slowly bio started appearing on top of the emulsion.

Thinking this was a good thing I left it a little longer and ended up with what looked to be around 50% bio.

Today I decided to drain the emulsion and check out the bio that had split.  Whilst draining, the % of bio increased in the sight glass.  I ended up draining just the right volume of glycerin/water mix (circa 25%) before discovering about 75 -80 ltrs of bio.


What I recon happened ...

The batch went quite normally (but there's me expecting an emulsion based on last batches) but in using the Mono at 17 ltrs/min to water wash, I recon the glycerin was separating in the processor quicker than the pump could remove it, hence all it was doing was circulating glycerin rather than doing any meaningful washing.

All I ever saw at the sample point was a flow of water and glycerin and made the assumption that this was again an emulsion.

Batch has now had an acid wash with Frankenpump followed by a water wash.   I'm only running Frankenpump, long enough to get the water in via the venturi and all seems to be well so far.

Just though I'd post up in case anyone else comes across the same problem with low capacity pumps.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Jamesrl on April 04, 2014, 08:19:06 PM
Can't you get anything right.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: K.H on April 04, 2014, 08:22:16 PM
Ever thought of buying a petrol motor?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 04, 2014, 08:44:26 PM
Perhaps I should have ended ...

Just though I'd post up in case anyone else comes across the same problem with low capacity pumps, or take the piss.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Jamesrl on April 04, 2014, 09:35:55 PM
Take the piss, would we ever, we're only here to hep.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 04, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
Take the piss, would we ever, we're only here to hep.

If I want your hep, I'll ask for it.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Jamesrl on April 04, 2014, 09:49:31 PM
Take the piss, would we ever, we're only here to hep.

If I want your hep, I'll ask for it.

Now who's not taking the piss just 'cause I made a typo, you nasty man.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: K.H on April 04, 2014, 09:57:57 PM
Perhaps I should have ended ...

Just though I'd post up in case anyone else comes across the same problem with low capacity pumps, or take the piss.
Are you ok taking a piss? Just wondered if we have to talk you through that as well, if that starts coming out funny colours see a doctor
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Tony on April 06, 2014, 07:23:04 PM
Maybe you should try washing your bio with water rather than bodily waste liquids?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 06, 2014, 07:52:08 PM
Maybe you should try washing your bio with water rather than bodily waste liquids?

It wouldn't surprise me if it neutralised some of the soap.  An experiment for the BBB perhaps?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Tony on April 07, 2014, 09:38:32 AM
Bio fumes are bad enough without them smelling of wee too.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 07, 2014, 04:55:00 PM
I was thinking of it as a task for Womble as we didn't manage to kill him last year.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Head Womble on April 07, 2014, 08:46:25 PM
Someone mention Womble.

So this task, is it collecting the pee, providing the pee, or using it to wash bio ?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: K.H on April 07, 2014, 08:58:50 PM
I wiil pass, im only any good at taking the pee  :(
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 07, 2014, 09:00:48 PM
Collecting pee ... I didn't think of that aspect of the task, good point.

I volunteer womble to sit at the bottom of Chugs composting toilet with a bucket.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 07, 2014, 09:02:14 PM
I wiil pass, im only any good at taking the pee  :(

I knew there had to be something you were good at.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Head Womble on April 07, 2014, 09:59:36 PM
I wiil pass, im only any good at taking the pee  :(

All the pee will need to be extracted, so there's still a valid roll for you to play.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Head Womble on April 07, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
Collecting pee ... I didn't think of that aspect of the task, good point.

I volunteer womble to sit at the bottom of Chugs composting toilet with a bucket.

why do you suggest I sit holding the bucket,
I'm starting to think you have something against me.
Is it my good looks and finely toned body,
my superior brewing skills,
or just my whit and charm ?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Julian on April 07, 2014, 10:21:01 PM
Collecting pee ... I didn't think of that aspect of the task, good point.

I volunteer womble to sit at the bottom of Chugs composting toilet with a bucket.

why do you suggest I sit holding the bucket,
I'm starting to think you have something against me.
Is it my good looks and finely toned body,
my superior brewing skills,
or just my whit and charm ?

It's not just me ... half the forum were inventing lethal tasks for you last year.  Compared with that my suggestion is positively caring.

And on the subject of superior brewing skills, need I mention the blue barrel full of soap sitting outside my shed?
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: kamaangir on April 07, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
I can tell you in advance that washing bio with piss from the BBB will do nothing to get rid of your soap as all the piss will be so heavily ethanol laden that all soap will be in suspension for weeks.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Head Womble on April 08, 2014, 09:48:17 PM
Collecting pee ... I didn't think of that aspect of the task, good point.

I volunteer womble to sit at the bottom of Chugs composting toilet with a bucket.

why do you suggest I sit holding the bucket,
I'm starting to think you have something against me.
Is it my good looks and finely toned body,
my superior brewing skills,
or just my whit and charm ?

It's not just me ... half the forum were inventing lethal tasks for you last year.  Compared with that my suggestion is positively caring.

And on the subject of superior brewing skills, need I mention the blue barrel full of soap sitting outside my shed?

What blue barrel, I have no recollection of this blue barrel you speak of.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: julesandtash on April 08, 2014, 09:58:21 PM
I can tell you in advance that washing bio with piss from the BBB will do nothing to get rid of your soap as all the piss will be so heavily ethanol laden that all soap will be in suspension for weeks.

I bet it would fuel that jet engine you are trying to build.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: Head Womble on April 08, 2014, 10:07:07 PM
I can tell you in advance that washing bio with piss from the BBB will do nothing to get rid of your soap as all the piss will be so heavily ethanol laden that all soap will be in suspension for weeks.

I bet it would fuel that jet engine you are trying to build.

Good point, we could try running it on Vince's cider, after filtering you understand  ;), as it's to good to waste in a jet engine even if it is for entertainment.
Title: Re: Even failing at making emulsions now!
Post by: kamaangir on April 08, 2014, 10:50:37 PM
What do you mean "waste" in a jet engine!

Get that barrel and off to the bottom of the toilet with you and don't come back till its brimming with the stuff!

Waste indeed!  ;D